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1960: The Making of the President» Forums » Rules

Subject: Unpledged Electors Question rss

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wendigo song
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Played this game the other night and Unpledged Electors was played in which Kennedy must carry Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana in order to get the electoral votes for them.

Going into election day the support for each state was:

Alabama: 4 State Support for Kennedy
Mississippi: 1 State Support for Kennedy
Louisiana: 4 State Support for Kennedy

I had an endorsement in the south and on election day I got to do 3 support checks in Mississippi. Only one of them was successful and at the end of the game Mississippi had no state support. What followed was a brief debate in which the Kennedy player made the point that due to Kennedy not carrying the state of Mississippi that according to Unpledged Electors it was not to be counted. As the Nixon player I argued that on election day my endorsement marker in the south gave me the state and that Unpledged electors only applied if Kennedy had state support on Mississippi after election day.

Mississippi was so crucial because under my interpretation if I was awarded Mississippi I would win the game 271 to 266. But under the the Kennedy player's interpretation if Mississippi's electoral votes went uncounted the electoral vote total would have been 266 to 263 and due to a house rule, in the event that no player gets the required 269 electoral votes the election goes to the house off representatives and the winner is decided by the player who has the most cubes on the board (which was Kennedy.) The way we ended up playing it was that we counted Mississippi under the endorsement marker rule for me and I won. But in retrospect I was wondering if we played it right and if in reality I did not win. I was hoping that someone on the boards might be willing to offer an official ruling.
 
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Steve Bauer
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I can't give an official ruling but I can give you my interpretation and I am certain this is how wargameroom does it. If Nixon has influence cubes or the endorsement he gets the votes, if Kennedy carries the states with 4 or more cubes he gets the votes if neither case happens the votes go to Byrd, and neither player get them.

Edit: the text on the card is pretty clear:
If Kennedy wins Alabama, Louisiana or Mississippi with less then 4 state support. the electoral votes for these states are not awarded to either player.

If Nixon won the state by endorsement (or any other way) Kennedy didn't win and the card doesn't apply.

As a point of strategy spending 4 on any of these states is a bad use of cps for Kennedy, there had to be a better place to but them.
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Daniel Hammond
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If he had had one cube or the endorsement then no one would have gotten the votes. Since he had no support and you had the endorsement the state is yours and as mentioned the Unpledged Electors doesn't come into play.
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Richard Maurer
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sbauer9 wrote:
I can't give an official ruling but I can give you my interpretation and I am certain this is how wargameroom does it. If Nixon has influence cubes or the endorsement he gets the votes, if Kennedy carries the states with 4 or more cubes he gets the votes if neither case happens the votes go to Byrd, and neither player get them.

Edit: the text on the card is pretty clear:
If Kennedy wins Alabama, Louisiana or Mississippi with less then 4 state support. the electoral votes for these states are not awarded to either player.

If Nixon won the state by endorsement (or any other way) Kennedy didn't win and the card doesn't apply.

As a point of strategy spending 4 on any of these states is a bad use of cps for Kennedy, there had to be a better place to but them.


Almost as good as a Kennedy player flying out to Alaska and Hawaii to put support cubes in these two states. No, he did not play Ken Air to help him get there.
 
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R.J.
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Does that mean he has to have 4 in all 3 of the states to get the points for any of them? Or is it on a state by state basis?
 
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Steve Bauer
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breakaway11 wrote:
Does that mean he has to have 4 in all 3 of the states to get the points for any of them? Or is it on a state by state basis?


State by State
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R.J.
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sbauer9 wrote:
breakaway11 wrote:
Does that mean he has to have 4 in all 3 of the states to get the points for any of them? Or is it on a state by state basis?


State by State


Roger that!

Thanks.
 
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Tod Andrew
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Had the following situation in a recent game.

There was no cubes on Alabama or Louisiana - hence the Kennedy opponent claimed that he was not winning it and hence the event of not awarding the votes did not proceed.
Following the these Election Day events is the endorsements and edges. He then claimed that he gets the state due to edge colour being blue. And that the previous card doesn't apply as it has already been dealt with and removed.

What do you think?

 
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Steve Bauer
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Shenanigans, I say!

I am not sure I follow the sequence you are describing but resolving the unpledged electors puts the effect into play it doesn't remove it. The requirement remains for Kennedy to win by 4 cubes in order to get the votes until the end of the game.

As you describe it it would never do anything as votes are always assigned at the very end of the game after all election day events have been resolved.
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Adam O'Brien
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I think applying the historical theme to the situation helps clarify the rules:

If Nixon wins those states, either through cube placement or Endorsement, it goes to him.

If "blue" wins the state (by cubes, endorsement, or edge color), that's when the Unpledged Electors card comes into play. If blue wins, that just means that the democrats have taken the state in question. You then apply the card effect to determine if that Democrat was JFK or Byrd. For game purposes, that means that at least 4 blue cubes need to be on the state to score points for the Kennedy player.
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