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Subject: Daylight Robbery rss

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Paul S
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We tried Adventure 4 last night.

I did some research here beforehand, and saw the lengthy debate about whether only items count towards the 12 treasure card total.

We discussed what approach to take, and unanimously decided that the best thematic approach was to allow items only to count. The flavour text talks about items. The non-items are discarded, so cannot be carried out. And it's a nonsense anyway to talk about carrying a "blessing" out of a dungeon (unless perhaps it is in effect at the time you leave - but even then. Nah.) And looking at the rules supports the view - the reliance some place on the bulletpoints is iffy at least - it's plain to me that the 3rd bulletpoint isn't a bulletpoint under the heading at all, so there's no reason the 2nd should be. Anyway. Wasn't here to have that debate, but couldn't resist my 2c, and it becomes relevant in a minute.

So, having decided how we wanted to run it, we then came across the very reason why, if our interpretation of the rules is right, the adventure seems to be out of kilter with the others we've played so far (admittedly only 3).

2 and a half(ish) hours later and we had given up, time had run out and there wasn't enough enthusiasm to think about trying to keep the setup in place for a week or more till our next session.

We had acquired but 6 items in those hours, despite killing about 25 monsters.

Our first mistake was to draw items-only at the beginning of the game for initial equipment. Whilst I think that's a good and thematic rule in the other adventures, it's a big mistake to take 5 items out of the treasure deck at the outset, for this adventure. I think we'd have felt less robbed had we left them in. We even thought about whether to count them towards the 12, but that seeemed unsatisfactory.

We learned quite a lot. Our group tactics have improved. My glass cannon kept out of trouble much more effectively this time. I do like the Mage. Fireballs are fun. We did however rely too much on the "stay together in a tile" approach. With +1 AC and +1 to hit courtesy of fighter/mage abilities, and ease of healing in mind, it looks like a good idea. But the encounter cards (not to mention rats, Gargoyles and Blazing Skellies) are punishingly tough on tight groupings. We figure we'll try a "max 2 to a tile" next time. But we're still learning, and picking up this kind of stuff is a big part of the game for me.

Was it an enjoyable game? Hmmm... Mixed. Frustration was creeping in by the end - hence the decision to call it a day rather than save it for another. Pulling 5 or 6 consecutive non-items after battling hard to kill a dozen monsters can be a bit soul-destroying. The lack of progress began to tell for some. I liked it anyway, on the whole. The learning was good. There were some great die rolls at just the right time, and we only used one healing surge and were in fair-to-middling shape by the time we finished. The time counter was only on 4. I suspect we'd have won, had we played for another 90 minutes, but if I'm going to sit down for 4 hours I'll dig out Arkham Horror, thanks very much.

I guess if you get lucky with the treasure draws, this will be a decent enough adventure. If we'd played with the "alternative" suggested so that treasure cards all counted, we'd've finished in well under 90 minutes. We had 20-odd non-item treasures in the treasure discard pile by the end, plus the 6 items we'd taken - we'd have won twice over. It would, in fact, arguably have been too easy, at least with 5 players. But more to the point, it just made no sense to play that way. Now, if the rules had said "you may treat any treasure cards as an item for the purposes of this adventure" I think we'd have felt justified in going down a different (and more successful!) route.

We're glad we played it by what we thought was the book. But we're left feeling that, as it stands, this is probably a broken story. I doubt we'd play it again. I did wonder, when I did the reading here up front, about taking one piece of advice about what to do with Adv 4 - it was "skip it and play one of the others"! Maybe that would've been the simplest way to go.

Still... another one chalked up to experience.
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Chadwick VonVeederVeld
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if you download the manual from the wizards webpage at ....

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Castle_Ravenloft_RuleBook.p...

the last page says....

"Adventure 4: The number of Treasure cards required to win includes
the Items that the Heroes enter the dungeon with. Fortunes
and Blessings, however, do not count towards the required number
of Treasure cards; only Items."

while I don't like that answer...that is probably official....

Judah
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Gah! How can they update the "rulebook" and not let us know there have been changes?!? Either way, this particular rule is not a change, it's more of a clarification that to many is already clear. How are you supposed to leave the dungeon with a discarded Blessing anyways?

-shnar
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Chadwick VonVeederVeld
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so, is there an official ruling about drawing starting items? discarding until you get actual items?
 
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John H.
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VonVeederVeld wrote:
so, is there an official ruling about drawing starting items? discarding until you get actual items?


Yes, that is exactly how it works now.
 
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Paul S
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VonVeederVeld wrote:
if you download the manual from the wizards webpage at ....

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Castle_Ravenloft_RuleBook.p...

the last page says....

"Adventure 4: The number of Treasure cards required to win includes
the Items that the Heroes enter the dungeon with. Fortunes
and Blessings, however, do not count towards the required number
of Treasure cards; only Items."

while I don't like that answer...that is probably official....

Judah


Heh! Kinda hope that is wrong, since otherwise we were 11/12 and could've finished in another 15 mins! Arg! Thanks for the reply.



Also, like you, I think it's a crap answer. Next time I walk into my bank with £100 in my pocket, and walk out with the same, I'll tell the world I've robbed the bank.



Also, if one assumes the "always draw till you get an item" rule is correct, then this official answer means that you could rewrite the adventure to read "steal 12 magic items, less one per adventurer." Is that really intended?
 
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Tristan Hall
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However you interpret it, this is easily the weakest official adventure released so far.
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Paul S
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ninjadorg wrote:
However you interpret it, this is easily the weakest official adventure released so far.


I'll go with that. We'll move on to No. 5, next time, I am sure.
 
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Alita The Heretic
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I've played this one solo twice, and very nearly won each time. I found both sessions exciting if a bit of a downer because of getting so close to winning. Had I known the items one walks in with count towards the total, I might have won. (In both games an encounter card spelled the end) While not dripping with theme like some of the other scenarios..I liked this one, its a real challenge to come up with treasure items when the deck is loaded with things that aren't...
 
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Paul S
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One more thing: any views, please, on what you do with the "clock", if you draw a tile e.g. from the bottom of the tile deck, by reason of an Encounter card?

We played that if said tile was a white triangle, you took the "move the sun +1" penalty.

But the rule talks about the time moving if you "explore" and there's an argument to say you're not exploring, if it's an Encounter card that produces a tile.

We played the harder version; just interested to see what others thought.
 
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Eric Ruhland
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I've combined the treasure decks from CR and WoA so when we played scenario 4 it worked quite well without counting the items we started with or non-item treasures.
 
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Paul S
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Eric, is that because the WoA treasure deck is 100% items? That's what I've read, but I've not got WoA. Would make life much easier, I'm sure.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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ninjadorg wrote:
However you interpret it, this is easily the weakest official adventure released so far.


But it's an official answer. The only thing we've had to go on so far has been Wizard's Phone Reps, which are notorious for getting things wrong and answering off the cuff.

(and as I said before, this is just reinforcing what the original quest stated anyways )

-shnar
 
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Paul S
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Official, but shit, I suggest.
 
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Tristan Hall
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Beloch wrote:
Eric, is that because the WoA treasure deck is 100% items?


Correct. There's another adventure in WOA where you have to collect 12 items too IIRC, but I don't remember it being as bothersome - maybe because you there are no fortunes/blessings.

But once you start playing campaign mode you won't look back at these individual quests anymore anyway! laugh
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Eric Ruhland
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Beloch wrote:
Eric, is that because the WoA treasure deck is 100% items? That's what I've read, but I've not got WoA. Would make life much easier, I'm sure.
That's correct. They are all items and are generally more powerful as well. By mixing the two decks I find that you acheive a much better balance. Actually I'm tempted to get a second WoA treasure deck and mix in a second copy of most of the cheaper/1 time use treasures and removeing the CR blessings.
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