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Subject: What would you pay for used games in an FLGS? rss

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Jeff Rietveld
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I am a B&M retailer, and will be introducing a consignment section of used games once we move to our new location in a month. Along the line of some recent threads, I'd like input on a couple questions:

1) For most normal games (used copies of currently available titles), what would you expect to pay as compared to MSRP?
For example: MSRP on Macao (or insert any other game here) is $45. I would spend $___ on a good condition used version.

2) As a game-owner, how much would you expect to get for that same game on a consignment basis (for in store credit)?
For example: I would want $___ for my good condition used Macao.
Note: Consignment means you get the value once the game sells. Immediate credit for certain titles is possible, but that would mean the consignor would get less in return.

There are plenty of variables we are forced to consider as we work on the details for this, but I'm hoping input will help.

Thoughts?
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Scott Manns
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well Macao may have a MSRP of $45, but with just a little bit of work one can find it for around $30 at an online store no problem.
If I was a store owner selling used games I would sell a used good condition copy of Macao for about $20.
As far as consignment, if that means a customer brings a copy in to the store for the store to sell, I think it's fair to split the price down the middle. Store gets $10, original owner gets $10 when game sells.
I really hope this helps.
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Damian
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MrScottx wrote:
well Macao may have a MSRP of $45, but with just a little bit of work one can find it for around $30 at an online store no problem.

Not if you factor in shipping. It's not a fair comparison when you have to buy $100+ worth of product to get that price. A lot also depends on the condition of the game. For a game in great shape that I was really interested in having (say a 2 rather than 3-4 on my wishlist) I would pay at least $25 and maybe $30.

60/40 (store takes 40) is the most common consignment split across the areas I'm familiar with, but that assume the store is taking an active role in marketing and selling consignment goods. If you're just going to flop them on a table or shelf I wouldn't try to take more than 70/30 at most.
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Brad Wagnon
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My local FLGS has a consignment section, and they split the sale with the seller based on 50/50 for cash out, and 70/30 for store credit. That way, it encourages people to sell used games, but turn around and "re-spend" the proceeds. I have done this in the past with RPG items, and purchased some of their in stock boardgames in return.

As for pricing: Typically half full retail is the "base" number. Add a few bucks if the game is totally like new or has extras - like sleeved cards, extra figures, spare set of rules...etc., subtract a few for dings, shelf war, pieces being punched, rules underlined, etc.

OOP games are harder to price. An old copy of Kingmaker goes for $20 in near mint condition, but a beat up copy of Drang Nach Osten could go for up to $200+. A new game I can pick up later, but that old copy of Black Sea, Black Death....now that sends my heart racing!

One thing I might insist on is that if an item does not sell in 30 days, that price has to be adjusted, or the item needs to be picked up by the owner. Helps keep people from asking too high prices and clogging up shelf space.
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Flying Arrow
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I wouldn't compare it to MSRP, since games aren't often sold at MSRP. For a used game in good condition, I'd say about the same as the online discounted price for a new copy. It's used, but you wouldn't have to pay shipping and you'd have it immediately.
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Just my opinions, but on what you can charge:

In print, shrink wrapped - assumption here is you'll just put it on the shelf, flag the item in your inventory system, and no one will know the difference. Not always the kosher thing to do, but I'm just being realistic.

In print, opened but unpunched: 75% MSRP maximum. Keep in mind here you're doing double competition against mail order prices - it’s one thing to sell shrink wrapped at near MSRP, but to also expect near that for something opened when someone can go online is asking a bit much. The reason for as high as a value as I gave is that the buyer gets the opportunity to open and examine the contents for things you *don't* get to see in a shrink wrapped copy - like missing or damaged components.

In print, opened, complete, punched, but near mint: 50% MSRP maximum.

In print, opened, complete, punched, used but good condition: 25% MSRP maximum. At this level, my primary interest in the game would be as cheap spare parts for a copy I already own, if I really had interest in the game and didn't own it, I'd probably pony up for new or near mint. After all, if it is in print, why pay much more for an obviously used copy unless you just want to try the game cheap or need a few choice spare parts.

In print, incomplete: 20% MSRP maximum, and then only if I need spare parts and the parts in question are in near mint or better condition.

In print, opened, beat up condition: Nothing. Wouldn't buy it except for the above spare parts needs based on the part condition, and then only dirt cheap.

Out of print, shrink wrapped or complete punched near mint: 150% maximum of going secondary market price. You're not going to get good mileage on pricing based on MSRP - some titles are going to sit untouched (out of print but at clearance prices on secondary market) and others are going to vanish in a flash with a loss of potential revenue to you (out of print, in demand, hard to find). Instead you're going to have to do some research to see what it is worth. But considering all that, having the item on hand is worth a premium - no unknowns about condition or packaging or delivery time of buying from someone online. As such you can probably charge a premium.

Out of print, complete, punched, used but in good condition: 100% maximum of going secondary price. Unless the title is particularly hard to find and I just want to own a copy no matter what, I'd rather search harder for a better condition copy.

Out of print, incomplete: You're taking a major chance here - people looking for spare parts for OOP games are a niche customer base and likely not local. People who don't already own the game aren't likely to accept an incomplete OOP game, unless the missing pieces are unnecessary for game play and the item is really popular - even then, they're going to restrict what they're willing to pay. IMO, don't even bother trying to sell these.

Out of print, complete, punched, beat up condition: Unless you've managed to snag a copy of Full Metal Planete and want to display it like a trophy on the wall, don't bother. You're store's inventory doesn't need to make your place look like a pawn shop or garage sale.

As a general rule as the game owner, selling on consignment, I'd expect to receive from 50-80% of the sale proceeds, dependent on the scarcity of the item. Selling on consignment means the physical store isn't putting any cash on the line, just (admittedly valuable) shelf space and employee time – and the game owner knows this. As such the usual 25% of sale price an owner would normally get for just selling to a shop and making it their job to sell it or get stuck with it isn't going to fly. Because if it doesn't sell for the store, the game owner gets nothing but his game back. If it is in print, 50% would be customary. If it is out of print and in demand, 80% - anything less, and the game owner is better off selling it themselves. If it is out of print and not in high demand, 50% of going secondary market price.

The bottom line for any of this is the same decision making process you have in stocking new games from your distributor applies - don't stock it unless you think you've got a good chance of selling it. Even for consignment items that you can just hand back to the owner - it’s still taking up valuable space in your shop, taking time of your employees to display and price and present to inquiring customers. So be picky on the condition, research the secondary market of out of print items, and focus on what you know is popular - the hottest new titles, the enduring classics, the holy grail out of prints. IMO don't make the mistake of going for a variety of titles for the sake of variety. That is risky enough for new stock, it can sink you fast for used.

Also consider a well organized bulletin board for sale items that your customers have for sale but you don't necessarily want on your shelf. Require the exchange go through you, and consider a small commission charge for any sales made as a result. That way you get a piece of the secondary market with few of the risks, while still providing a valuable buyer-seller contact service.
 
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David C
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JRietveld wrote:
I am a B&M retailer, and will be introducing a consignment section of used games once we move to our new location in a month. Along the line of some recent threads, I'd like input on a couple questions:

1) For most normal games (used copies of currently available titles), what would you expect to pay as compared to MSRP?
For example: MSRP on Macao (or insert any other game here) is $45. I would spend $___ on a good condition used version.

2) As a game-owner, how much would you expect to get for that same game on a consignment basis (for in store credit)?
For example: I would want $___ for my good condition used Macao.
Note: Consignment means you get the value once the game sells. Immediate credit for certain titles is possible, but that would mean the consignor would get less in return.

There are plenty of variables we are forced to consider as we work on the details for this, but I'm hoping input will help.

Thoughts?


I like a lot of the ideas I'm hearing.

I generally hold a used game to be a couple bucks north or south of online pricing when I'm purchasing it.

I like getting used games like that, because it's the day-of, I like buying local, and I've never held shrink all that valuable. However, it's key for me, that I either really really want the game in the first place---which I'll pay a premium for, or I'm in the, I'm going to buy it someday anyway camp, which the price has to be reasonably right for.

The local shop Attactix has a, "call this guy if it's not in good shape" tag on their consigned games.
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Lacombe
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If a game had an MSRP of $45, I'd expect to get about $20-25 for it and you to sell it for about $35, just as rough figures... I guess around 50% of MSRP to me in credit, price about 20% off list on the shelf.
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Brook Gentlestream
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standard Direct Sale:
$45 MSRP of new game
-$20 Wholesale price
----
$25 profit


Consignment Transaction (part 1):
$27 Used price (60 % of $45 MSRP)
-$0 cost of initial product
-----
$27 profit

Consignment Transaction (part 2):
$45 MSRP of new game
-$16 discount for sale of used game (35% of MSRP of used game)
-$20 wholesale price of new game
-----
$ 9 profit

Consignment Transaction (total)
$27 profit from sale of used game
$ 9 profit from sale of new game
----
$36 total profit




I would place the following limitations on this system:
1) Instead of "store credit" call it a "discount off the purchase of any new game or game accessory".
2) Encourage the discount to be used right away rather than retained like store credit.
3) No single item can be discounted more than 50% off its MSRP.
4) Make sure they understand that sales tax must be paid on the full amount, not the discounted price.
 
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Damian
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lordrahvin wrote:
Consignment Transaction (part 1):
$27 Used price (60 % of $45 MSRP)
-$0 cost of initial product
-----
$27 profit

What? Do you understand what consignment is? The person selling on consignment through you isn't giving you free games. You have to give them money. At least 60% of what it sells for.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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damiangerous wrote:
lordrahvin wrote:
Consignment Transaction (part 1):
$27 Used price (60 % of $45 MSRP)
-$0 cost of initial product
-----
$27 profit

What? Do you understand what consignment is? The person selling on consignment through you isn't giving you free games. You have to give them money. At least 60% of what it sells for.


No, in this scenario, the seller is receiving store credit rather than money, and that is being spent in transaction 2. Until the credit is spent, the cost is 0. Both transactions have to be taken into account to figure out how much profit is made.
 
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Will
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I wouldn't compare it to MSRP, since games aren't often sold at MSRP.

They nearly always are sold at full MSRP at a FLGS. And since thats what this thread is about, why not compare it to that? Plus, it gives games a common reference point to discount off of.
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Damian
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lordrahvin wrote:
No, in this scenario, the seller is receiving store credit rather than money, and that is being spent in transaction 2. Until the credit is spent, the cost is 0. Both transactions have to be taken into account to figure out how much profit is made.

You're going to have to break down those numbers a lot more clearly then. You're proposing selling the consigner's game for $27 and giving them $16 in store credit? That's highway robbery to which no one in their right mind would agree. You owe them at least that much in cash.
 
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Marc B.
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lordrahvin wrote:
standard Direct Sale:
$45 MSRP of new game
-$20 Wholesale price
----
$25 profit





standard wholesale price of a $45 game is not $20. It's somewhere between $22.50 and $27 (depending on distributor and/or publisher)
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YES, and I have done this many times at my FLGS.

It beats Ebay, causes people to come in, creates game turnover since most people selling games use the money to buy other games, and builds the customer base and store following.

As to incomplete games for part, I do buy those as well, especially for rare OOP games and piece together a full game with spare components. Or you could ebay the parts seperately which is highly profitable, just get a young kid to maintain this part of your website.

And if you don't have a website as a B&M you should get one IMMEDIATELY as this is basically free advertising and the new Yellow Pages.

Besides this is VERY similar to selling MTG singles and A&A (and other minis). Not much effort for potentially a lot of return.

Consider this a service provided to your customer base to increase cash flow turnover.
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Benny Sperling
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I would be happy to pay $15-$20 less than the MSRP on the larger box games if they are used. Smaller boxes, $5-$10 less. You could compare against the selling prices on BGG, that's where I pick up most of my used games. Maybe add on $5-$10 of the used price as we would have to pay shipping. I would love to find a FLGS that accepts my used games for consignment and gives me my part of the sale in store credit.
 
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Cathleen Feduke
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I do consignment in my store with some success. Not great success, but it's only been around for about 6 months and is still relatively small. I don't pay anyone up front and reserve the right to return their games to them at any time. They get 75% cash or 80% store credit when the game sells. I do the same for painted minis or armies I put in my display case. I do not set the price. I leave that entirely up to the seller and do not want to get involved.
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fsumarc wrote:
standard wholesale price of a $45 game is not $20. It's somewhere between $22.50 and $27 (depending on distributor and/or publisher)

I don't believe that, since I can but things online for that price. Clearly the wholesale price must be less than this, although perhaps not very much less. In any case, it's irrelevant. I simply posted that up as a ballpark comparison so that we can make sure the consignment system is profitable in comparison to selling new games. It's also used to make sure that the second-transaction sale is at least slightly profitable, even with a discount.

If the wholesaler costs are, in fact, higher, than that only illustrates how much more impressive the profit margins could be of this sort of consignment system (compared to selling new games).

I don't want this thread to turn into a discussion of wholesale prices though. Feel free to augment my example and plug in any numbers you feel are more appropriate to see if the situation changes.

damiangerous wrote:
lordrahvin wrote:
No, in this scenario, the seller is receiving store credit rather than money, and that is being spent in transaction 2. Until the credit is spent, the cost is 0. Both transactions have to be taken into account to figure out how much profit is made.

You're going to have to break down those numbers a lot more clearly then. You're proposing selling the consigner's game for $27 and giving them $16 in store credit? That's highway robbery to which no one in their right mind would agree. You owe them at least that much in cash.


Earning cash was never an option in this scenario. The original poster said this was a system of consignment for in-store credit. So want to take another stab at answering the question? If you trade put a $45 game on consignment how much STORE CREDIT would you expect to receive when it sold?

I'm suggesting that used games sell for 60% of the MSRP, and earn the game owner 35% of the MSRP. This also matches your own earlier suggestion about a 60/40 breakdown, as well as your earlier suggestion that $20-$30 is a fair price for the used game. And as my detailed example posted earlier shows, the profit for the store is very good in this scenario, and the game owner receives a good value only if he was planning on purchasing a new game anyway. Think of this less like selling your game and more like trading in your old game for new ones.



Edit: Sorry Nate, for misquoting you. Fixed it.
 
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Damian
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lordrahvin wrote:
Earning cash was never an option in this scenario. The original poster said this was a system of consignment for in-store credit. So want to take another stab at answering the question? If you trade put a $45 game on consignment how much STORE CREDIT would you expect to receive when it sold?

Yeah, I missed that since it seemed to be more about consigning in general. The answer would be: Probably pretty close to what the consignee sells the game for. In store credit for a full MSRP game is virtually worthless. You're basically trading in your game for the privilege of paying the online price. I can't think of a better way to say "FU" to your customer.

Quote:
Think of this less like selling your game and more like trading in your old game for new ones.

Ah, the Gamestop model. It works for them, though it makes them universally reviled. It won't work for a Mom and Pop. Treating your customers like cows to be milked doesn't endear you to them.
 
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lordrahvin wrote:
NateStraight wrote:
standard wholesale price of a $45 game is not $20. It's somewhere between $22.50 and $27 (depending on distributor and/or publisher)


That quote was not from me.
 
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Jeff Rietveld
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We have actually been using calculations very similar to what lordrahvin has suggested. The justification is that I can give more credit to a customer if they turn around and spend it back in my store.

As much as I wish wholesale was less than half, very (VERY) few items have anywhere near that markup. The fine details might make a great new thread.
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I need to be saving at least 15-20% off the normal selling price if its still currently in print or readily available, and possibly saving more depending on the game.

Condition is also a huge factor, as condition deteriorates the discount needs to increase.
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I agree with most of the above, a 20% - 40% discount off MSRP, similar to online prices would do it for me. I save on shipping and get it today. But in reality it is all about supply and demand. A used copy of Ticket to Ride could easily sell for just $5 less than MSRP, but that unpunched copy of Rumis probably isn't moving without a little incentive.

And frankly if I received half of the proceeds in cash or 60% in store credit I would be fine with that. I understand that is about $15 for a gently used $45 game but I am used to that and worse from video game stores and furniture consignment shops.

And I will echo the thoughts about variety. If you end up with 12 copies of Dominion that you can sell for 30% off, consider yourself lucky.
 
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For complete, good condition, played games?

I'll pay the same price as I would for a new copy at CoolStuff or Miniature Market, which is about 33-38% off MSRP.
So for a $45 game, call it $30
 
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palmerkun wrote:
For complete, good condition, played games?

I'll pay the same price as I would for a new copy at CoolStuff or Miniature Market, which is about 33-38% off MSRP.
So for a $45 game, call it $30


sounds right to me
 
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