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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » News

Subject: Updated FAQ (v1.1) for LotR LCG rss

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Michael
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http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2411
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Patrick Leacock
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This is good to see. Should have been the first version (if they bothered to read the forums).
 
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James Ludlow
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This is the FAQ that we all expected the first time, so hopefully the complaint volume will go down now.

Also, finally...
Quote:
(1.00) The Golden Rule
The Golden Rule reads: "If the game text of a card contradicts the text of the rulebook, the text on the card takes precedence."
The Golden Rule applies when there is a direct contradiction between card text and rules text. If it is possible to observe both card text and the text of the rulebook, both are observed.

Example: The rulebook (p. 15) reads: "Any progress tokens that would be placed on a quest card are instead placed on the active location." Legolas (CORE 5) has an effect that reads, "...place 2 progress tokens on the current quest." Legolas' effect would place 2 progress tokens on the quest; the core rule from page 15 instead places those tokens on the active location. Thus, the Legolas ability can successfully resolve, and the core rule can be observed, without creating a golden rule situation.

(If a card effect read, "place a progress token on the current quest, bypassing any active location," a direct contradiction between card text and rulebook would be created, and the golden rule would then take effect.)
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Luke Stirling
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jdludlow wrote:
This is the FAQ that we all expected the first time

Indeed. I think I just became a little more optimistic for the future of this game seeing as how FFG looks to now be taking the effort to fix their oversights. That first FAQ felt kind of like an insult. Now all is forgiven.
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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The original FAQ on Chieftain Ufthak has been reversed; he doesn't get his token until after step 4 of the attack now. Good news for us adventurers!
 
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Patrick Leacock
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:
The original FAQ on Chieftain Ufthak has been reversed; he doesn't get his token until after step 4 of the attack now. Good news for us adventurers!

Yes, I noticed that. I thought this was the way it was meant to play and I was going to ignore the first FAQ on this. Bizarre how they ruled it in the first FAQ -- makes you wonder how many different people are putting the FAQ together.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Quick Strike and multiple attackers
The new FAQ says:
Quote:
if Tom exhausts Aragorn to play Quick Strike which reads, "Action: Exhaust a character you control to immediately declare it as an attacker..." both Aragorn and Legolas could attack the Hill Troll ...

I had been playing that only one character gets to attack with Quick Strike.
 
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Nate Heitz
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BitJam wrote:
The new FAQ says:
Quote:
if Tom exhausts Aragorn to play Quick Strike which reads, "Action: Exhaust a character you control to immediately declare it as an attacker..." both Aragorn and Legolas could attack the Hill Troll ...

I had been playing that only one character gets to attack with Quick Strike.


I believe the reason Legolas can attack with Aragorn is because he has the "ranged" trait, not because Quick Strike can affect two characters. What you can take away from this is that your "ranged" characters can assist other players' characters regardless of when the attack is taking place.
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James Ludlow
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BitJam wrote:
The new FAQ says:
Quote:
if Tom exhausts Aragorn to play Quick Strike which reads, "Action: Exhaust a character you control to immediately declare it as an attacker..." both Aragorn and Legolas could attack the Hill Troll ...

I had been playing that only one character gets to attack with Quick Strike.


It does. You're taking that sentence way out of context.

That section of the FAQ is discussing a player attacking the same enemy twice, via Quick Strike. Legolas, in the example, is controlled by another player and is participating in the attack via his ranged ability.

 
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Alan Kwan
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I was just going to post a thread to ask whether Feint can be played after seeing the shadow card (such as Despair). Now I don't have to.
 
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Scott Yost
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I get that Ranged lets Legolas ignore the constraint that he be controlled by the player who is engaged by the enemy, but are you saying that it has some other special relationship to Quick Strike? If Player 1 had another available hero besides Aragorn, could that hero join in the Quick Strike attack as well? That's not how I was playing Quick Strike. (I think that's what BitJam is saying above) I thought it was creating a new attack with a single member, not a new attack that people could join in.
 
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Alan Kwan
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There seems to be a contradiction that Ranged is allowing a character to join in an attack which normally no other characters can join (according to Quick Strike card text).

Though it makes sense if they are ruling that Quick Strike is originally intended to not have that restriction. It makes sense in terms of card balance, otherwise it's just "a bad feint" as Andrew called it.
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Thank you jdludlow and Rahlan for setting me straight. In case anyone else is confused, here is the text of Quick Strike:
Quote:
Action: Exhaust a character you control to immediately declare it as an attacker (and resolve this attack) against any eligible enemy target.

and here is the description of "ranged" from the rule book:
Quote:
A character with the ranged keyword can be declared by its controller as an attacker against enemies that are engaged with other players. A character can declare ranged attacks against these targets while its owner is declaring attacks, or it can participate in attacks that are declared by other players. In either case, the character must exhaust and meet any other requirements necessary to make the attack.

It can be combined with Quick Strike as long as the enemy being attacked is engaged with the other player (and not, for example, in the staging area being attacked by Dunhere).

Just to see if I really understand this, in the example given in the FAQ, the owner of Legolas could have used Quick Strike to have Legolas attack the Troll again but in this case Aragorn would not be able to join in.

IOW, Quick Strike is more powerful in multi-player games than it is in solo games.
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Scott Yost
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Man, I'm really not seeing that interpretation of Ranged. The whole point of it is to let you attack the other player's engaged enemies. The point of that particular sentence about timing is to tell you that it's okay for the ranged attacker to initiate the attack - you don't have to just tag along with the defending player's attackers, because maybe there aren't any.

 
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Kirk Bauer
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This FAQ is really good, it addresses every question I had unanswered in my unofficial FAQ, which I have just updated and uploaded for approval.
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Alan Kwan
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Agree with Scott. It can be argued that the FAQ's interpretation is defensible by the literal rules, but it has to be a twisted interpretation to interpret it that way.

I would interpret that the statement "it can participate in attacks that are declared by other players" is based on the assumption that normally multiple characters (even those without Ranged, if they are controlled by the player who the enemy is engaged with) can join in an attack, and Ranged serves to allow the character to participate (during the attack the engaged player makes against the enemy) even if it is controlled by another player. If a card text limits an attack to one character, it is IMO out-of-context mis-interpretation to apply the Ranged rules text to break that restriction. It is also themetically funny that while another player's Ranged character can join a Quick Strike, the player's own Ranged characters cannot.

I think they are mis-ruling on this one; they should have used attacks without Quick Strike's (implied) restriction to demonstrate the point. You don't even need any card effects: just attack the same enemy during different players' turns.
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J P
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So far I've ruled "when in doubt, do what's worst for you".

I'm glad that most issues have been resolved in a nice way, i.e. being able to react to effects that occur during setup and Ufthak (?) having 3 on his first attack.

This I find a bit sad, however:
Example: Tower Gate (CORE 107) reads, "Forced: After travelling to Tower Gate...." If a player wishes to play a response such as Strength of Will (CORE 47) after the players travel to Tower Gate, he must wait until after the forced response resolves.


This makes Strength of Will fairly useless. Best option is still to never travel to Tower Gate and just have a Tracker take care of it.
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Michail Giannis
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Quote:
A player cannot start a scenario with a threat level
that is lower than the combined threat cost of his
heroes. If a player’s threat is lower than the starting
threat cost of his heroes, he must increase his threat to
that value.


Page 5. For the Nightmare Variant.

So no more i drop my Threat track to Zero and procees to the next scenario..... (see cases going from scenario 2 to scenario 3)
 
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Daniel B
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BitJam wrote:
Thank you jdludlow and Rahlan for setting me straight. In case anyone else is confused, here is the text of Quick Strike:
Quote:
Action: Exhaust a character you control to immediately declare it as an attacker (and resolve this attack) against any eligible enemy target.

and here is the description of "ranged" from the rule book:
Quote:
A character with the ranged keyword can be declared by its controller as an attacker against enemies that are engaged with other players. A character can declare ranged attacks against these targets while its owner is declaring attacks, or it can participate in attacks that are declared by other players. In either case, the character must exhaust and meet any other requirements necessary to make the attack.

It can be combined with Quick Strike as long as the enemy being attacked is engaged with the other player (and not, for example, in the staging area being attacked by Dunhere).

Just to see if I really understand this, in the example given in the FAQ, the owner of Legolas could have used Quick Strike to have Legolas attack the Troll again but in this case Aragorn would not be able to join in.

IOW, Quick Strike is more powerful in multi-player games than it is in solo games.


Is a character with the ranged keyword also able to participate in another player's quick strike that is made in a phase other than the attacking enemy part of the combat phase? The rules for the ranged ability state that "any other requirements necessary to make the attack" must be fulfilled to participate with the ranged character. I guess my question is if being in the attack enemy part of the combat phase is such a requirement.

I assume that the quick strike + ranged combo was a surprise to many of us (at least it was for me) and it's funny how it came up in an example not directly related to combo.
 
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Troy Adlington
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Why the gnashing of teeth regarding ranged?

Ranged specifically allows these characters to attack in tandem with the declared attacks of other players (and you pay more for such ranged characters mind you)

Quick strike allows a character to go 'before' the enemy once engaged.

I hadn't thought of the combo myself but reading the rules the combo is quite legal (and Theme-y)
 
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Troymk1 wrote:
Why the gnashing of teeth regarding ranged?

Ranged specifically allows these characters to attack in tandem with the declared attacks of other players (and you pay more for such ranged characters mind you)

Quick strike allows a character to go 'before' the enemy once engaged.

I hadn't thought of the combo myself but reading the rules the combo is quite legal (and Theme-y)


I mostly agree. But it doesn't seem very themey that a ranged character can help out when another player's character quick strikes but not when it's being performed by one of your own.
 
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Just so I am clear in my head, you are not restricted in how many times you can attack a single enemy on your turn. You are just given one and only one option, by the game round itself, to declare attacks against enemies. If a card effect grants you more, then that is ok.

Another example would be Aragorn with Unexpected Courage with a Forest Spider engaged (1 defense, 4 HP). If you used your free 1 attack declaration from the game itself, Aragorn exhausts and damages the spider for 2 HP. Unexpected Courage readies him, and you play Quick Strike, which grants you another attack declaration. You assign that to Aragorn, exhaust him and resolve his attack and kill the spider. Only in Aragorn's first attack could other characters, controlled by the same player, participate. In both of Aragorn's attacks, ranged characters from other players could participate.

Is this right?
 
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Christian Kløve
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thirteenthirtyseven wrote:
So far I've ruled "when in doubt, do what's worst for you".


Same here
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Troy Adlington
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WrongWrongWrong wrote:
Just so I am clear in my head, you are not restricted in how many times you can attack a single enemy on your turn. You are just given one and only one option, by the game round itself, to declare attacks against enemies. If a card effect grants you more, then that is ok.

Another example would be Aragorn with Unexpected Courage with a Forest Spider engaged (1 defense, 4 HP). If you used your free 1 attack declaration from the game itself, Aragorn exhausts and damages the spider for 2 HP. Unexpected Courage readies him, and you play Quick Strike, which grants you another attack declaration. You assign that to Aragorn, exhaust him and resolve his attack and kill the spider. Only in Aragorn's first attack could other characters, controlled by the same player, participate. In both of Aragorn's attacks, ranged characters from other players could participate.

Is this right?


Looks to be correct.
 
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Troy Adlington
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Deebs wrote:
Troymk1 wrote:
Why the gnashing of teeth regarding ranged?

Ranged specifically allows these characters to attack in tandem with the declared attacks of other players (and you pay more for such ranged characters mind you)

Quick strike allows a character to go 'before' the enemy once engaged.

I hadn't thought of the combo myself but reading the rules the combo is quite legal (and Theme-y)


I mostly agree. But it doesn't seem very themey that a ranged character can help out when another player's character quick strikes but not when it's being performed by one of your own.


Re-read Ranged. You can. (edit NO. I should re-read it. you cannot)
 
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