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Glen More» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about 2 and 3 players game rss

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Steve Monofas
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Ok. I have just bought the game and read the rules. I don't understand 1 thing.

First of all I understand by reading the rules that in 2 and 3 players game you put 1 extra player as dice to clear up some tiles.

In a 2p game, let's say that each player, including the die, gets 1/3 of the tiles. Well it isn't completely true because someone might get +1 or +2 and the other -1 or -2 and so on. But for simplicity lets say that each player gets 1/3 of the tiles.

In a 3p game, each player gets 1/4 of the tiles because there is also a die player. Why is that? Since that the game plays beautifully as 2p with each player getting 1/3 of the tiles, why we need a 4th player? We simply play 3p as normal and each player gets the same amount of tiles as in 2p games.

Does it make sense?
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brian
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I believe it is just a mechanic to give a little chaos. With 3 players, there may still be too much predictability in where players are going and there is not enough competition. With the die, you have that chance that the tile you really wanted is going to be gone.

So it is not so much just trying to remove 1/3 or 1/4 of the tiles (which i think those numbers are incorrect as you leave tiles on the board and the die gobbles up a varying amount). It is meant to put pressure on the players to make tougher decisions. I would suspect that this is more ideal as a 4-player game on the low end. So the die was added to 3-players to get this same feel. I also suspect that maybe with 2 players, 2 dice might have been more ideal but also would have been more confusing. But we find the die does enough damage in a 2-player game as is.

So the point is about the added randomness of removal and adding pressure to the decisions. Not about getting an equal set of tiles to the players.
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Bruce Murphy
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Personally, I find 3 to be a sweet spot for the game. The die works really well.

Note that players do *not* get 1/nth of the tiles. Many tiles are skipped over by everyone and discarded out of the game, even with the dummy player.

B>
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Peter Mumford
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thepackrat wrote:
Personally, I find 3 to be a sweet spot for the game. The die works really well.

Note that players do *not* get 1/nth of the tiles. Many tiles are skipped over by everyone and discarded out of the game, even with the dummy player.

B>

Agreed! I really like playing with the die. And yes, 3p might be the sweet spot.. except 2p, 4p and 5p are almost as good. Glen More scales very well.
 
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brian
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thepackrat wrote:
Note that players do *not* get 1/nth of the tiles. Many tiles are skipped over by everyone and discarded out of the game, even with the dummy player.

Yeah, I think of that as the die gobbling those as it is pulling up the rear more often than not.

However, since the game is over once you draw the last tile, there are also tiles left on the board that no one can ever get to. With less players taking up space on the board, that means more tiles are out of the mix.
 
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Derek Thompson
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I love the game, but kind of hate the die. I haven't played 3p yet but intend to exclude the die. An alternative would be to remove some tiles at random ahead of time instead of using the die - but at random is actually probably a bad idea (you could end up with, like, no wheat fields, for example) - but there's probably a simple collection you could remove (1 of each production type, 1 annual fair ,etc)
 
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Steve Monofas
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I see that what I said about 1/3 and 1/4 didn't lead the discussion to my real question.

Even though I haven't played the game yet as you all can see what I wanted to tell you is this, rephrased.

In 2p with a die you get some tiles. When there is a third player around, why just take the die's place so we can all get the same amount of tiles as in the 2p game.

Maybe now it makes more sense, although I saw that you all understood what I wanted to express at first hand. That's why I wrote:

"Well it isn't completely true because someone might get +1 or +2 and the other -1 or -2 and so on. "

and of course I was not in the 1/3 of the total tiles math since I reckon that the last tiles are not played plus the ones we skip during the game.

I am not fan of editing posts but I think I will do it now on my first one as I already feel bad about wrong expressing what I wanted to say (and my lack of English of course).

Anyways...
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brian
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I got your point. With a 2 player and a die, you have "3 players" so why bother with a die when you have 3 real players. That is your question, right?

The point isn't that it works so that you have X amount of players. It is in there to have the random removal of tiles to increase the competition over what is left. It is definitely needed for 2 players otherwise they can just divide all the tiles amongst themselves and there are enough paths to victory.

With 3 players, I think you can still comfortably get what you want for your strategy. The die being in still increases the pressure as their is another chance for the tile you really want next to go away.

Once you get to 4 players, this pressure is taken up by the players themselves as now the paths to victory get crowded and you will have people edging in on your strategy to also win.

So to put it simply: the die needs to be in 3 players games as much as 2 player games. It is a balancing mechanism to keep things from being too easy for the real players.
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Russ Williams
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I think the OP raises an interesting question. If a random die as a 3rd pseudo-player creates the necessary competition so that you can't get what you want "too easily", why wouldn't a real third player (who's more intelligent and trying to thwart you, unlike the die) also be able to create the competition so that you can't get what you want too easily, at least as well as a random die, if not better?
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Bruce Murphy
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The 2p game is much softer. Replicating that feeling should be a non-goal.

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brian
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thepackrat wrote:
The 2p game is much softer. Replicating that feeling should be a non-goal.

B>

As I said above as well, it would probably be better to run 2-player with 2 dice so that it gets on par with all the "other 4-player" versions. But that would be more confusing and probably not add much.
 
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Bruce Murphy
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The dice take more tiles than a typical player (thus ensuring they get many that you wanted). 2 may well deplete the supply too much.

B>
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Frank Conradie
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The game certainly "works" with 3p and no die, as that was the "accidental variant" we played during our first 3 player game blush .

The die does add a nice degree of tension to the 3p game though, and as others have mentioned above, makes for a tougher and ultimately more rewarding experience.
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