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Commands & Colors: Napoleonics» Forums » General

Subject: A great game! rss

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Guillaume Gleize
France
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I had been a permanent critic of this game for some weeks.

Believe me: it was not to make anyone loose time. It was just because I was quite disapointed by some details after having enjoyed so much M44 & BC150.

But I must admit that with the read of your numerous answers and defense of this game ... I'm starting to think this game is a "MUST"!

So why I do not buy it now? Because:

1) It's not yet easy to find it in France!
2) I will wait for the main CENTRAL EUROPE BATTLES to be there then I will buy everything at once (I hate to be oblige to wait for my "dealer" for years to have a complete game).
3) I know, I know about history reality but this game is more COMPLEX than my actual BC150 so over my 10 regulars adversaries I thing I will loose 7 of them (I know them: they like the easy-fun-quick-toy-like figures games).
4) I know, I know about historical reality but thoses "WEAK LEADERS" are so sad ... We allready play BC with a home rule stating that they also influence the adjacent units (take ground & ignore flag). So I'm quite sure that I will add a HOME RULE to give back thoses commanders a little more value (without destoying the spirit of this game).
5) I won't speak about the BLOCKS again: some know I'm fan of figures but the blocks fans convinced me about their advantages ... (groumpf)!

OK It's a GREAT GAME. We just still all have some natural critics on it ... anyway. But what will be ruled in our private home will stay in our private home right?

When AUSTERLITZ is available I buy everything!

Vive l'Empereur!

GG


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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
France
Caen
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Guillaume, I think the cheapest way to get it in France is here:

http://www.philibertnet.com/commands-colors-napoleonics.html...

(the shipping is free over 55, so no shipping)
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Kris Van Beurden
Belgium
Leuven
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That site was definitely the cheapest way for me to find it in Belgium!
 
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Guillaume Gleize
France
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TY Miguel!



 
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
France
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De rien Guillaume!

Indeed philibertnet is the cheapest way to get most of the games... Free shipping over 55 euros makes it even cheaper! With so many good games it's very/too easy to get to 55...
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Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
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Quote:
4) I know, I know about historical reality but thoses "WEAK LEADERS" are so sad ... We allready play BC with a home rule stating that they also influence the adjacent units (take ground & ignore flag). So I'm quite sure that I will add a HOME RULE to give back thoses commanders a little more value (without destoying the spirit of this game).


So you already play Battle Cry with a rule that makes Leaders far stronger than in any C&C game?

One of the things that has always amazed me about all the games in the Commands and Colors series is how often people are ready to change or "fix" rules before they've even played the game.

I got quite irritated with this in CC Ancients, when there must have been 5 or 6 different people who posted things like, "Just got the game. Looks great. Haven't finished reading the rules yet, but here are my fixes for the lack of flank bonuses."

I'm not making that up.

I looked around and found the same thing had happened with Mem. 44, and in fact, people were posting "fixes" to things before the game was even released. "What, it doesn't have road bonuses? It doesn't have roads? Here are my improvements."

Again, I'm not making that up.

I was surprised at the differences in leader value between CCA and CCN, but given that the designer has played both for a long time, and likely done all sorts of tweaking and adjusting along the way, I'm inclined to suspect he may know what he was doing and trying to do and to leave the game as designed.

I do recall that the Italians, with their Napoleonic variant of Battle Cry, also reduced Leader benefits significantly, compared to BC. Possibly people who have really studied leadership value of this period actually know what they are talking about...
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Guillaume Gleize
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Kevin,

If you knew me you will see that I'm somebody really cool and respectuous of everything (people and their habits).

I understand your feeling and your vision of players loving to change everything even before the very first dice roll. Be sure I would be trying first the game with its basic rules and be sure when I play oustside my home I respect and enjoy the rules the way my host enjoy it.

But the home rules I added in M44 and Battlecry are allready a great succes with all the guys who tested it numerous times with me at home and a good success with the guys who read it on the forums!

I understand your point of view and, like you, I don't like the abuse of changing the rules. Most of the time the basic rules are OK.

But I pretend to be slightly different. From I was 8 years old, I used to "order" board games at Christmas ... I opened the boxes ... get the rulebooks ... closed the boxes ... took a pencil ... AND STARTED TO MODIFY THE RULES EVEN BEFORE THE VERY FIRST TRY! Believe it or not, but 90% of the time I was right!

It was in a way my VERY FIRST SPECIALITY in the life (lol). Now I work in the rules (poker), create them, change them and feed my wife and children with this job! I'm respectuous of every way of playing the games but it's hard to change 40 years of habits right?

Regards,
GG
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Steve Duke
United States
Georgetown
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Guillaume the great thing about it is that you can change or add/remove anything you like because you bought the game!

No harm from your experimenting. I'd be interested to hear how you found the results with your adjusment?

Kevin may have forgotten the game he got me when I was little called "Chopper Strike". It was a Milton Bradley game that had gun jeeps on the map and helicopters that played on this clear plastic platform above the map, so it looked like the choppers were flying.

The game as written was little more than checkers as I recall. Kevin came up with some 'house rules' that involved firing, ranges and probabilities to hit and made the game into a little bit of a wargame. And the game was much better now!

No one is harmed when a game buyer plays the game they have bought in a way 'other than intended' by the designer. The designer has his thing that he's trying to do but maybe it is not what you wish to represent. Change it to your liking, by all means!

And do report what you think the outcome of your adjustments are in case others on here might want to adapt some of them for their own enjoyment!
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Guillaume Gleize
France
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Thanks Steve for the post!
Great child games memories too!

Yes I will try to be more and more carefull not to disturb or annoy regular players with my "home rules" even if, as you say, it may be interesting for some players.

But I deeply respect the ones who want to stick to the official rules. About the Richard Borg games, thoses players are right on a main point: the rules are also here to fit with the characteristics of the specific war!

In BC150 I admit that on our 2 home rules ("Sabers" & "Generals") "Sabers" is more oriented playability and fun than reality of the time. It's just a choice. Respect for the basic rules. The other home rule ("Generals") can be defended as a reality of the time: the uge importance of the leaders on the battlefield during the ACW.

Over our 3 M44 home rules ("Infantry vs Guns at close range", "Elite tanks" & "Tigers"), 2 where more oriented reality in our arogant opinion.

Last point: Richard Borg himself seems to be very respectuous about the home rules and he said several times that the main goal of his games was pleasure ... however the player find it.

My key word whatever your choice: RESPECT! And respect for Kevin who seems to have a very great experience of the wargames! No offense: I'm just a poor "Rule Rover" posting in a terrible english!



 
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I see and understand the points of view being expressed in this thread... I think I rather see the house rules/modifications done through the command deck. Either with new cards (possibly blank) or through a mechanic like discard a card one card for a leader to give support to an adjacent hex, or for a unit to hit on sabers. Kind of like how the combat decks work in M'44.

Regardless, I have yet to find any tweaks I would like to add to C&C:N.
I find it plays rather well out of the box (after a few scenarios for the learning curve) and delivers on my interpretation of what combat could have been like in the period. No house rules for me... (yet)

We'll have to see where the expansions go from this point.

Any chance we can get a real scenario editor here?
I'd love to see what the community would produce.
 
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Will Green
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StevenE wrote:


Any chance we can get a real scenario editor here?
I'd love to see what the community would produce.




Did someone say, "scenario editor?"

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/index.php?limitstart=5


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