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Subject: Headline phase: "Lone Gunman" versus Scoring Card rss

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John McLintock
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Playing a game as the US last night, my headline card was Central America scoring, my opponent's was "Lone Gunman". I revealed my hand but I didn't reveal my headline card. My rationale for this was that the card was no longer in my hand. The only relevant rules text I could find was:
Quote:
C. Headline Phase: Each player secretly selects a card from their hand. Once both players have made their choice, they reveal their cards to each other simultaneously.

This leaves the question open really. My opponent- an experienced cardplayer, accepted my argument; I admitted that my call was sneaky, but fair; and we moved on. Looking back as I write this, I realise that one strong point in favour of my argument is the fact that a headline card isn't in a player's hand for the purpose of selecting/drawing a card or cards to satisfy events, so why should it count as being in hand for any other purposes? This is elementary cardplay logic it seems to me.

What do other people think?

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Karl Hiesterman
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I'm confused; both headline cards are revealed at the same time. You reveal the Scoring card and he reveals the Lone Gunman. Then the Lone Gunman effect occurs, then you Score (since a Scoring card is considered to have an Ops value of 0 for determining timing of Headlines). So there is nothing for you to hide, is there?
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Jacovis
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Yep Karl has it John! The revealing is simultaneous. Although I'd be mighty suspicious of people claiming there's a lone gunman.. they always come in pairs ninja

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Daniel Corban
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It is rather strange that you posted the answer to your question directly in your original post! (the quoted rules text)
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John McLintock
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Argh! Stupid me. That's a mistake we've been making quite regularly in our games so far, now that I think about it. Ah well, I got the "Lone Gunman" card wrong- leaving my hand revealed for the whole turn, so I guess that evened things out. Thanks Karl. shake
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John McLintock
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dcorban wrote:
It is rather strange that you posted the answer to your question directly in your original post! (the quoted rules text)

Lone gunmen breed paranoia and paranoia breeds confusion. whistle
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Evgeny Reznikov
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Confusion breeds fear, fear breeds anger, and so on and so forth gulp
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Michael
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JMcL63 wrote:
Argh! Stupid me. That's a mistake we've been making quite regularly in our games so far, now that I think about it. Ah well, I got the "Lone Gunman" card wrong- leaving my hand revealed for the whole turn, so I guess that evened things out. Thanks Karl. shake


We play it that you do keep your cards revealed the entire turn. otherwise you will just slow things down or force your opponent to take notes before you unreveal your cards.
 
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John McLintock
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Cathan wrote:
JMcL63 wrote:
Argh! Stupid me. That's a mistake we've been making quite regularly in our games so far, now that I think about it. Ah well, I got the "Lone Gunman" card wrong- leaving my hand revealed for the whole turn, so I guess that evened things out. Thanks Karl. shake


We play it that you do keep your cards revealed the entire turn. otherwise you will just slow things down or force your opponent to take notes before you unreveal your cards.

But that's not how the card works Michael. From the FAQ:
Quote:
Q. Does the US hand remained revealed for the entire turn?
A. The effect of the card is not ongoing. The US only needs to reveal his hand at the time the ‘Lone Gunman’ card is played.

Turning this card into 'Aldrich Ames' is too much. If you want to make it easy on the USSR player (and I do agree that the US player should do more than just flash their cards at the USSR player), I'd suggest the cards are laid out until the USSR player conducts their Op. Also: I think it's fair that the USSR player has to work from memory when enjoying the benefit of this event.
 
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Evgeny Reznikov
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JMcL63 wrote:
Cathan wrote:
JMcL63 wrote:
Argh! Stupid me. That's a mistake we've been making quite regularly in our games so far, now that I think about it. Ah well, I got the "Lone Gunman" card wrong- leaving my hand revealed for the whole turn, so I guess that evened things out. Thanks Karl. shake


We play it that you do keep your cards revealed the entire turn. otherwise you will just slow things down or force your opponent to take notes before you unreveal your cards.

But that's not how the card works Michael. From the FAQ:
Quote:
Q. Does the US hand remained revealed for the entire turn?
A. The effect of the card is not ongoing. The US only needs to reveal his hand at the time the ‘Lone Gunman’ card is played.

Turning this card into 'Aldrich Ames' is too much. If you want to make it easy on the USSR player (and I do agree that the US player should do more than just flash their cards at the USSR player), I'd suggest the cards are laid out until the USSR player conducts their Op. Also: I think it's fair that the USSR player has to work from memory when enjoying the benefit of this event.


I think that the above means that if the US gains new cards (through Ask Not) they are not revealed.
 
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John McLintock
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I think you are right Evgeny.
 
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Michael
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JMcL63 wrote:

But that's not how the card works Michael. From the FAQ:
Quote:
Q. Does the US hand remained revealed for the entire turn?
A. The effect of the card is not ongoing. The US only needs to reveal his hand at the time the ‘Lone Gunman’ card is played.

Turning this card into 'Aldrich Ames' is too much. If you want to make it easy on the USSR player (and I do agree that the US player should do more than just flash their cards at the USSR player), I'd suggest the cards are laid out until the USSR player conducts their Op. Also: I think it's fair that the USSR player has to work from memory when enjoying the benefit of this event.


Yep. I get that. Card also doesn't say you can't write down notes. So instead of making it a pure memory exercise we play both Lone Gunman and CIA with the cards exposed. Works for my regular gaming partners and it's how it works out when playing Vassal, but I get it's not for everyone.
 
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Michael Kiefte
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Cathan wrote:
and it's how it works out when playing Vassal, but I get it's not for everyone.


Really? That wasn't the intention. Your view of the American hand should stop as soon as the round advances. Last I checked, that's how it works.

However, what you could do is get a quick screenshot of the hand. I've never had to do that myself. You just look at the hand and scan for important cards. It's usually not that hard. I've never memorized all of them.
 
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Michael
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VASSAL+PBEM+possibly ACTS = record of what transpires. Easy enough to see, look at and refer to at any point. And very helpful when it may take a week or two to play a turn. Don't know about y'all, but I can't remember what I saw in a particular game (I usually have a few going on at once) after a few days have passed. And so again, just sharing how we approach it. /shrug

 
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Alex delenca
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My memory ain't what it used to be. A pocket camera comes in handy here... :-)

Actually, my brother and I took pictures of a game in progress the first time we played - to finish later.... Actually, that reminds me - we never finished!! Need to dig out those pictures. Now, what were we talking about again? :-)
 
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