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Subject: Battle Effects & Stacking rss

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Colin Marsh
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I'm unclear on how multiple Battle Effects stack. The one example that came up in a game I played involved Spoiled Food & one of the Giants. Essentially the scenario was.

Three Heroes ( Milita, two strength 4 heroes, one strength 5, Spoiled Food & Something Else )

I'm fighting a Giant that kills two heroes with 4 strength or less.

How would this scenario resolve? I played it as follows:

1. Spoiled Food is eaten
2. Battle is won
3. Spoiled Food kills Militia
4. Two strength 4 heroes are killed.

Later when i read the rules an additional time I thought about the Battle Effects rule which states "Any cards destroyed by a Battle Effect remain in play until the end of the battle - Heroes fight until the bitter end!"

So perhaps the Militia could be both the target of the Spoiled Food as well as one of the Giants' victims?

A follow up question would be, what if the first battle effect didn't kill the target. Would stacking two effects on one hero be legal then?

The reason I killed 3 heroes was that I assumed Battle Effects would follow a rule similar to Dungeon effects where once a card is destroyed, it is removed from play.
 
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Ian Kelly
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No, a hero destroyed by one effect is not available to be destroyed by another effect. Now, if you only had two strength-4 heroes, then I believe you could let the spoiled food destroy one, and then the giant only has one hero to destroy. But that's different from having the spoiled food and the giant both destroy the same hero.
 
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Uwe Heilmann
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Hi,

that's an interesting case.
Here is my way of processing it:
After the battle was resolved, the effect of the spoiled food is applied first, followed by the BATTLE effect.

So the loss of three heroes was inevitable.

But think of the following situation:
You had only 1 Militia, 1 Hero strength 4 and 1 Hero strength 5.
In this case, only two heroes would be eliminated (assuming you don't have the Hero with strength 5 be killed by the spoiled food).

To demonstrate the power of the THUNDERSTONE game system allow me to elaborate on the following situation based on your card configuration:

2 Amazon Archers (strength 4), 1 Redblade Killer (strength 5), and 1 Militia attack a Stone Giant at rank 1. The combat team carries 1 Spoiled Food (the sixth card is assumed to be neutral for this combat).
Options for attack:
(1) 1 Amazon Archer
(1s) 1 Amazon Archer + Spoiled Food
(2) Redblade Killer
(2s) Redblade Killer + Spoiled Food
(3) Militia
(3s) Militia + Spoiled Food
(11) 2 Amazon Archers
(11s) 2 Amazon Archers + Spoiled Food
(12) 1 Amazon Archer + Redblade Killer
(12s) 1 Amazon Archer + Redblade Killer + Spoiled Food
(13) 1 Amazon Archer + Militia
(13s) 1 Amazon Archer + Militia + Spoiled Food
(23) Redblade Killer + Militia
(23s) Redblade Killer + Militia + Spoiled Food
(112) 2 Amazon Archers + Redblade Killer
(112s) 2 Amnazon Archers + Redblade Killer + Spoiled Food
(113) 2 Amazon Archers + Militia
(113s) 2 Amazon Archers + Militia + Spoiled Food
(123) 1 Amazon Archer + Redblade Killer + Militia
(123s) 1 Amazon Archer + Redblade Killer + Militia + Spoiled Food
(1123) 2 Amazon Archers + Redblade Killer + Militia
(1123s) 2 Amazon Archers + Redblade Killer + Militia + Spoiled Food

22 possible ways to attack!

Resolution:
(1) 1d6+1 vs. 1d6+6 (bad chance for the team)
(1s) 1d6+2 vs 1d6+6 (still bad)
(2) 1d6+2 vs 1d6+6 (still bad)
(2s) 1d6+3 vs 1d6+6 (still bad)
(3) 1d6+1 vs. 1d6+6 (bad chance for the team)
(3s) 1d6+2 vs 1d6+6 (still bad)
(11) 2d6+2 vs. 1d12+6 (bad chance for the team)
(11s) 2d6+4 vs. 1d12+6 (bad chance for the team)
(12) 2d6+3 vs. 1d12+6 (bad chance for the team)
(12s) 2d6+5 vs. 1d12+6 (still bad)
(13) 2d6+2 vs. 1d12+6 (bad chance for the team)
(13s) 2d6+4 vs. 1d12+6 (bad chance for the team)
(23) 2d6+3 vs. 1d12+6 (bad chance for the team)
(23s) 2d6+5 vs. 1d12+6 (still bad)
(112) 3d6+4 vs. 1d20+6 (still bad)
(112s) 3d6+7 vs. 1d20 (good chance to win)
(113) 3d6+3 vs. 1d20+6 (still bad)
(113s) 3d6+6 vs. 1d20 (good chance to win)
(123) 3d6+4 vs. 1d20+6 (still bad)
(123s) 3d6+7 vs. 1d20 (good chance to win)
(1123) 4d6+5 vs. 1d20+6 (still risky)
(1123s) 4d6+9 vs. 1d20 (best chance to win)

Hero losses:
(1, 2, 3, 11, 12, 13, 23, 112, 113, 123, 1123) 1 Amazon Archer + Militia
(1s, 2s, 3s, 11s, 12s, 13s, 23s, 112s, 113s, 123s, 1123s) 2 Amazon Archers + Militia

Ranges of Victory Points:
3 if the Stone Giant is killed
+
(1) 0
(1s) 0-1
(2) 0-1
(2s) 0-2
(3) 0
(3s) 0-1
(11 to 1123s) 0-6

0 if the Stone Giant was not killed, and the other teams could each get up to
(1) 10
(1s) 9
(2) 9
(2s) 8
(3) 10
(3s) 9
(11) 14
(11s) 12
(12) 13
(12s) 11
(13) 14
(13s) 12
(23) 13
(23s) 11
(112) 19
(112s) 10
(113) 20
(113s) 11
(123) 19
(123s) 10
(1123) 17
(1123s) 7
Victory Points.

THUNDERSTONE provides quite some food for thought, doesn't it.


Cheers
U.L.H.


 
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black spark
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By my understanding, only one Hero would be fated to die.

The Spoiled Food would give each Hero STRENGTH +3. So for the rest of the turn the Militia would have a Strength of 5
and the other Heroes would have Strengths of 7, 7, and 8. Thus the Gaint's Battle Effect would not kill any of these Heroes. Only the Spoiled Food would kill a Hero (probably the Militia).

Otherwise, I agree with the above advice. Resolve the Spoiled Food and then the Battle Effect.
A card destroyed by one Effect cannot be destroyed by another Effect.
 
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Colin Marsh
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great point, i hadn't considered the added strength coming into play.

i'm still unclear on one follow-up question though.

Can battle effects be stacked if the first effect does not destroy the card?

If there were two effects that lowered strength, could they both target the same card assuming the first one didn't kill that card?
 
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black spark
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I would say Battle Effects can be stacked. For instance, The Prince (Doomknight*Humanoid) can use one Battle Effect
to reduce a Fighter's Strength by 2 and then use another Battle Effect to destroy that Fighter.



As for applying two effects that lower strength, consider a hand that includes a Hero with Strength 4 and a Fatigue (Disease*Special). The Fatigue can be applied to the Hero so that his Strength is reduced to 2. This does not kill him. If you then attack The Prince, The Prince would reduce the Hero's Strength to 0 and he would be destroyed at the end of the turn. (that is, yes, two effects that lower strength can target the same Hero.)

If you had a second Hero in your hand that was a Fighter, it would be destroyed by The Prince's second Battle Effect.
As the first Hero would already be killed by the first Battle Effect it could not be targetted by the second Battle Effect.
If you did not have a second Hero in your hand that was a Fighter the second Battle Effect would have no effect.
 
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