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Subject: is it first strike Overpowered ? rss

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During the last night I've open my package of Warcraft: The Board Game and then with my friend we've try to play this.

There we are, after this night there's some questions on my mind like:

The elves seems to be too OP for the other army.

1st it's a ranged army.
2nd the ranged attack first
3rd the last level of this ranged is 4 and have an OP skill.

I mean, I've play the 3 other and I just can't do nothing. My friend always go to mass ranged build, then creat 2~3 ranged soldier and then upgrade... I can't do nothing on a fight.

I've try to build an exclusive ranged army with Orcs, Human or Undead, but at least his ranged army is so much better with the EXP cards or with the power of 3-4...

This game sounds good but I dislike the fact that I'm forced to go ranged ONLY cause he go ranged at start :/

Then there's my question: how can I play against Elves, or vs mass ranged units ?

Sorry about my langage, I'm french. Thx for the answer
 
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Gary Pressler
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The short answer is: don't give the Night Elves a chance to get there!

It takes a lot of turns to build ranged buildings AND upgrade ranged units to 4 AND train all their ranged units. You should be spending those turns building a fast and cheap melee army. Upgrade your melee units once (maybe twice). Build one or two melee buildings and an outpost on the same turn. And then just start churning out cheap melee units and attack.

The Orcs have the best chance against them. Their Devour cards can neutralize one ranged unit. If you have time, getting Bloodlust helps, too.

Much of this game is knowing when to attack. If you sit and let the Night Elves build a fully upgraded ranged army, then you will probably lose.
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Tobias Moos
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I agree with Gary. Timing is crucial, letting the Elves build up a massive ranged army is deadly. If you have the chance, get the expansion. The races are much more balanced with the additional race powers.

Also don't forget:
"Ability Activation and “Natural” Rolls Abilities that are activated on a roll of 1 (or any other specific number)
only activate if the die roll shows that exact number. Modifiers to die
rolls (such as from Faerie Fire) do not activate such abilities. (For
instance, a roll of a 2 that is modified to a 1 will not activate the
Human’s Heal ability.)"

Here's the rulebook for the expansion: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/Warcraft/Media...

Playing another scenario than the standard-starter scenario will also change a lot, as the goal will be not just eliminate the other player. The elves won't have that much time to build up their ranks. Otherwise the game will be over by the time they reach the max-level.

Enjoy.
 
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I don't have the expansion pack then I play with the rules of the simple pack.

what do you mean with the natural roll abilities, I see no one on the simple pack :/ (except the "heal" and the "one more kill")

At least yes Orcs have maybe the most chances against elves, but I've try your opening and I don't know if I've just some badluck but I didn't get "devour" on my first hand and elves got the "bonus shoot if you kill one" on his hand and then on a 5 melee of power 3 (me) vs a 2 range of power 2 (elves) I lost 4 units at first :/ and then I can do nothing :'(

+ I need 3-4 turn to go on the elves field, and on this time he got this **** 2 ranged units :x (with this 2x shoot cards)

 
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Gary Pressler
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The expansion will indeed help a lot, and I highly recommend it. However, the base game is solid enough. If you enjoy the base game, the expansion will make it even better, but not miraculously different.

I purposely did not bring up the expansion at first, since inexperienced play was the most likely problem. The expansion and a good scenario certainly help, but letting the Night Elves build without hinderance is still a deadly mistake.
 
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Gary Pressler
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Trainis wrote:
I don't know if I've just some badluck but I didn't get "devour" on my first hand and elves got the "bonus shoot if you kill one" on his hand and then on a 5 melee of power 3 (me) vs a 2 range of power 2 (elves) I lost 4 units at first :/ and then I can do nothing :'(

Ow! That's some pretty terribly luck! With those units and the Moon Glaive, there is only a 1.2% chance of getting all 4 hits! Depending on what that last melee unit did and what I had left for resources, I might surrender.

Edit: And yes, the "natural roll abilities" are the ones that give a special effect when a 1 is rolled in combat. Those are Area Effect (extra hit), Heal, and Raise Dead in the base game.
 
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GaryP wrote:
but letting the Night Elves build without hinderance is still a deadly mistake.


I'm okay for that but forced to rush the elves player don't open a lot of strategie.

And moreover on a 2v2 I've been opposed to Orcs and Elves and me and my mate on Human/Undead, was kinda hard. (randomed races)

I need more experience that's sure, but elves don't need so much to be imba vs new player and on a new player's hand, and the exp cards for this race is so strong on my mind, double hit, choose the target.

off course I will buy expansion, later ^^


Sorry about my "rage" ^^
I think that would be more balanced with hp for units (or armor), I think, a Tauren can't be killed by just one ranged elves which power of 2... just cause of one hit :/

Does it exist a "mod" of rules to play with hp or even armor? (like a warhammer game)
 
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GaryP wrote:
: And yes, the "natural roll abilities" are the ones that give a special effect when a 1 is rolled in combat. Those are Area Effect (extra hit), Heal, and Raise Dead in the base game.


But it can happen only if I've reach the last upgrade of melee orcs units, like tauren... it's far too, and to reach that the elves can reach a big level on range too no ?
 
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Gary Pressler
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Trainis wrote:
GaryP wrote:
: And yes, the "natural roll abilities" are the ones that give a special effect when a 1 is rolled in combat. Those are Area Effect (extra hit), Heal, and Raise Dead in the base game.

But it can happen only if I've reach the last upgrade of melee orcs units, like tauren... it's far too, and to reach that the elves can reach a big level on range too no ?

I was just confirming which abilities Tobias was referring to.

No, you should probably not wait to reach the level 4 Melee Orc (Tauron) before attacking the elves, but you can continue to work toward it.
 
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I will try your tips for the next time, sounds hard to me to counter Orcs or elves with another race, I need more train to know exactly what I've to do VS that, and more, the roll is a part of luck, or badluck too :x


Cya, and thx for all of the answer
 
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Ken Bush
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I agree, it's very difficult to beat the elves. At our house we only let the elves have there special ranged ability on the first attack of a battle, not the rest. They still usually win but it's more balanced.
 
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The Warlord
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This issue was officially solved a long time ago by Kevin Wilson and Mike Z, the problem is that the two places where the corrections were found are no longer around (Old Yahoo group & old (old) FFG forums).

Two powers were amended, the Humans and the Night Elves and these corrections were then formally part of the rules in the expansion. They are as follows:

Revised Heal: If you have one or more units with this ability participating in the battle, then when your opponent is rolling for attacks, each die showing a 1 (not including modifiers) inflicts 1 less casualty than it normally would (i.e. 0 casualties normally or 1 casualty with the area attack ability). Each 1 rolled still counts as a hit, and this ability does not negate any other effects of the 1 (such as triggering raise dead, etc).

Revised Slow Poison: If you have one or more units with this ability participating in the battle, then when rolling for attacks, your units that exactly roll their combat strength deal casualties first during this phase instead of attacking simultaneously.

So the Humans Heal got better (when in large combats, worse if it was a 1 v 1 where they couldn't be hurt) while the Night Elf ability only triggers in a 1/6 chance per unit rather than always being in effect.

However, while that brings the ability back in line with the others, there is still the ranged units being spammed by night elves play-style to contend with though there are ways around this.

- Establish a Forward Outpost as soon as it is a viable option. This cuts down the time it takes to get your units on the front line and thus prevents several turns of the enemy being able to build up. Outposts work VERY well with Town Portals as suddenly a small force is right on their doorstep/resource zone.

- Apply pressure and be the agressor rather than turtling up, force the opponent to divert resources and to become a reactionary player so hitting resource nodes, controlling the map and raiding.

- You don't have to beat the Night Elves, only to win by VP so 15 in 2 player games or (revised) 20VP with the 4 player games. For your own scenarios, there's generally a rule of thumb being 9 per player on a team + 50% of the VP on the board is what needs to be scored for victory. But things like Fast, Town Portal and spread out Outposts really allow you to sneak in a Victory even if you are not 'winning'.
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ow I see Garathos, whatever in a few months my pack of expansion come at my house so it would be ok with the "balance" with the new rules I think Whatever we've try it with the simple pack, that's much much much better, we can also try some "late" game without fear the IMBA range elves units, at least that's always hard cause they play first, but is less less less cheated than before laugh.

You up one question on my mind, we've already play Stracraft and Broodwar pack and the VP is cumulated turn per turn.

My question is, it is the same for Warcraft?, or in Warcraft you must control 15VP at the same time and at the end of the turn to win ?
(cause in the french rules, maybe bad translate whistle, it's not correctly explain if the VP is cumulated or no.)
 
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Gary Pressler
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In the basic scenario, VP do NOT accumulate each turn. You must control 15 (or 30 for 4P) at the end of the turn to win.

I believe there are other scenarios in which VP do accumulate like Starcraft, but I would have to look a bit. I generally prefer accumulated VPs, but either can work.
 
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The Warlord
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Gary is right, once every player has completed their 'Spend Step', the end turn "phase" begins in which you check for Victory - Does any player control 15VP in that one moment? If yes, game ends, if no, another turn begins. As this check is at the end of a turn, it means you can think ahead a turn and set up a game winning plan as there is the opportunity to race ahead with VP in almost every step. If you think you can do it, go for it, if not, don't reveal your intentions and simply set it up a little better until it is ready to be implemented.

***

In the move step you take control of what objectives you can, Fast Cards are helpful to move units from an outpost or Town Space that were deployed the previous turn and generally grab the objectives left untouched but purposely in reach so the opponent doesn't get wind of your plan to end via VP until it's too late as most players I've found expect you to take their Town Space instead and don't expect the sneaky VP grab. Town Portal cards are also helpful to set it up the turn before if you did not deploy units on that previous turn (generally meaning you upgraded tiles to best or second best level as the VP flags on tiles are not noticed, only their strength or special abilities and that's how you sell it).

In the Deploy step you drop units on Outposts (which can be built on VP locations - so deploying them on an Outpost will mean controlling that objective) and Town Spaces as you don't actually control your Town unless you have a unit there.

In the Spend step you complete any Unit Tile final upgrades which you left on the second best level the turn before to lure your opponent into a false sense of security or just because you didn't have the resources to do it last turn.

After the Spend step but before the turn ends is when you play your VP cards in your hand. Never play VP cards until you know you can win that turn as you don't want the opponent to know that you are close to being able to do so.

So in the space of a turn, on paper at least you began on a small number of VPs but in reality were much further ahead than what your opponent thinks you are on and that is the key to a bloodless victory!

***

The above is an ideal situation that will never happen perfectly but elements of it can be incorporated into your game plan as the important thing with these sort of games is never letting the opponent realise that you are actually close to winning as they're normally focused on the war going on with units in the middle of the board and judging their situation and how close they are winning/losing based on that outcome alone rather than realising that second way to win - VP.
 
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