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Legend of the Five Rings» Forums » Rules

Subject: "Send Home" versus Move rss

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Jessey
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SJBenoist wrote:
Are attacking Unit's Bowed in both cases?

Does it matter if the unit was moved before Resolution?


Attacking Units bow after battle resolution (because of battle resolution).

Units Sent Home are only bowed if the send home effect says to bow them. Otherwise they are just returned home in the state they were in at the battlefield they were sent away from.
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Jessey
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The important text is the first part:

" Return home: Regardless of who wins, loses, or ties in the battle, all attacking and allied units at its battlefield return home simultaneously; then, all units that returned home bow simultaneously."

The units are bowed as part of the Return Home step. Units that return home from this step that are attackers bow. The part that is confusing is the next part:

" Both the change in location and bowing are effects of the battle and the battle's resolution, even though they happen after resolution."

Which is just specifying where the movement and bowing effects originate - not who they affect.
 
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Danny O'Donnell
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SJBenoist wrote:
Also, about the second part:
Quote:
Both the change in location and bowing are effects of the battle and the battle's resolution, even though they happen after resolution.
(emphasis mine)

This is saying the Battle itself can trigger bowing (matching the first quote in this post), and in pretty clear language.

Has this rule been changed? Is there a typo?



Yes, but it's referring to a specific effect, which states specifically that that it affects units still at the battlefield after Resolution (or something else ends the battle). At that point, a unit that was sent home earlier is no longer an attacking unit, and there's not really anything to suggest that the unit remembers its state as an attacking unit earlier in the battle for that step.

It's also a good indication that a good number of effects that send units home do say to bow them, which would be somewhat redundant if they were supposed to bow anyway.
 
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Danny O'Donnell
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SJBenoist wrote:
But that still means the Bowing is not dependent upon Resolution, which is what we were discussing there.


I'm not saying that it is. But it is dependent on being there at the end of battle, however that may have happened.

SJBenoist wrote:
I think I am not being clear. I'm not suggesting the game is played differently from what is being offered, I am stating the rules as written do not seem to match how the game is played.


I don't think that's the case. It's pretty clear that 'returning home' is meant to refer specifically to what happens to units at the end of battle, and is distinct from being 'sent home'. I suppose they could throw an 'in this manner' on the end there, just to make it absolutely clear, but I don't think it's necessary for the rule to read correctly.

SJBenoist wrote:
I don't think the cards are a very good indicator, as they are not consistent (see the Gold Producing Holdings exceptions).

I am not familiar with many of the newer cards, could you point me toward some current printing ones read that way?


Honor the Ancestors: http://l5rshop.com/db/search.cgi?cmd=detail&card_id=7852 bows the personality it moves home, while Under Arrest: http://l5rshop.com/db/search.cgi?cmd=detail&card_id=8924 does not. Selfless Defense: http://l5rshop.com/db/search.cgi?cmd=detail&card_id=8258 even does it conditionally.
 
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Brent Lloyd
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I had the same question come up in a recent game, came here looking for answers...and find no real answer except the different intrepretations of players reading an obtuse rule book.

It is NOT the players fault there are all these ambiguities, it is the fault of the folks writing the rules and the text on the cards. You would think after 15 years this game would be chrystal clear.

Peace
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