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Subject: How much shuffling is too much? rss

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David Sevier
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I'm working on a new game that has some deck-building aspects to it. I have been thinking of having some of the decks that players deal with have early, mid, and late game sections that are shuffled to keep things a bit more random without getting completely unbalanced.

Problem is, there are 4 of these decks (which would be 12 mini-decks to shuffle) plus another 4 decks that have to be shuffled. Is 16 too many?

I know with talisman setting up the board can be a bit annoying with all the little decks that have to be shuffled once you start using expansions, but that doesn't seem to lessen anyone's enjoyment of the game. My group may also have a higher tolerance for deck shuffling than others, though.

So what are your opinions, as both designers and gamers? At what point does the replayability of randomized decks outweigh the annoyance of lots of little decks to shuffle?
 
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Scott G

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Mephansteras wrote:
Is 16 too any?


Knee-jerk reaction... yes.
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TS S. Fulk
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scottieGGGG wrote:
Mephansteras wrote:
Is 16 too any?


Knee-jerk reaction... yes.


That's my elbow-jerk reaction too.
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Joe Mucchiello
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You can lessen the burden of shuffling if you distribute it across play of the game. If these decks represent progress of some kind they don't need to be shuffled before they are first used, do they? It depends on how much a break in play the next section is, I suppose.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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I really don't like lots of shuffling but the amount I'll tolerate relates to the length of the game. Think about Arkham Horror, multiple hour game, many decks. San Juan, shorter game, 1 shuffle.
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David Sevier
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Hmm. Good point on the length. Talisman has a lot of shuffling, but it's a similarly long and epic game. A longer set-up isn't a big deal if you're going to be playing for 3-6 hours.

This game shouldn't be nearly that long, so cutting down on shuffling is a good idea.
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Santa Tom Pellitieri
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If only one or two decks are shuffled at a time, there wouldn't be much of a problem, provided it makes sense. Primary example would be Avalon Hill's Civilization, with the expanded commodities. Discards to each of the nine card stacks get shuffled and placed at the bottom at the end of each turn. Certainly not a game breaker.
 
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David Sevier
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Not a bad solution. I can break things up a little bit with one of the stacks.

It also occurs to me, now that I think about it, that having that many types of cards might be an issue from an art standpoint. 3 of the stacks I had in mind could probably be made static for each section of the game without hurting game play too much. That'd cut out 9 of the shuffles as well as a good chunk of unique art that'd be needed.

Thanks for the replies, they've been most helpful!
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Nate K
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As a recovering Magic addict, I recall playing decks stuffed with land-fetching effects that sometimes needed to be shuffled two or three times in a turn. (Ah, the days of my casual Goblin Charbelcher deck....) Subsequently, I think I have a higher tolerance for shuffling than most people. What you've proposed doesn't sound like too much to me, especially because it sounds like the shuffling is spread out a bit throughout the game. But since my tolerance is rather high, I'm guessing that it's a little bit too much for the average player.
 
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Guido Van Horn
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when I clicked on this I accidently read the thread as "how much suffering is too much"
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