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Stone Age» Forums » Variants

Subject: Removing the play distortion due to excessive end-of-game bonus points rss

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Paul DeStefano
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If you aren't eyeballing who is collecting what cards and seeing who is afte what strategy, it isn't surprising that you hate when the points rack up.

Changing this observational aspect of the game would cripple it.
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Chris Stanton
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The last 4P game I played a few days ago had an interesting final turn & scoring.
I was Chief & as first action took the card position that would help out the player on my left the most, they then took the card that would help the player on their left....& that player took the card that would help me most (we ignored Player 3 as it was felt they were in no position to really do much damage).
There was no discussion about this (just a comment afterwards) & one of the players is very new to the game. We each just figured that these were the best moves points-wise.

Scores before cards were fairly tight (20-point spread), the card-scoring held no surprises & the scores remained in that sort of spread....with the exception of Player 3.

Simple observation & paying attention to the game seems to works wonders. If players can't do this, either encourage them to start...or suggest a different game.


As for the Tools stopping dice rolls being so 'exciting'...well, yes. That's the point of them. That's why you spend turns collecting them. So you can make sure that you get the Resources you need. If I wanted a dice-rolling luckfest, I'd go play Risk.
 
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Randall Bart
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markgravitygood wrote:
Hidden cards is a big part of the fun,
Right. It's a euro game not Ameritrash. It's not supposed to be a bash the leader game. Why do you want to know who to bash?
 
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Neil Christiansen
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We play all Civ cards face up except for the "extra" card that can be obtained.

Don't calculate scores until the end.

Works fine.
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Mauricio de Souza Fonseca
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This makes no sense at all. STONE AGE has one the the cleanest and easy to learn rules ever. To change for the sake of nothing makes no sense.
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Alex Fiedler
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Carver wrote:
But the player who does this puts himself (and hopefully John) at a disadvantage whilst the other two get on with their own game.

I agree with you here Derek. This is also why I stopped playing 7 Wonders. Yes, you can stop the Science strategy (and in StoneAge the CIV cards) by changing your plans and preventing the other player getting them all, but all you are doing is sacrificing your own goals (and sacrificing your own victory) to prevent another player achieving theirs. Thus, you only benefit the other players who did not intercede. Fail.

I would much prefer this game to have a balanced set of goals. You should be able to focus on whatever you want, and be able to win equally via just Huts, just CIV cards or a clever mixture of both (of course playing well and getting reasonable rolls).

Instead, if a player starts getting CIV cards, you are FORCED to intercede or you will lose every time. Huts cannot compete against a larger synergy of CIV cards. I'm not a fan of this.

On the other side, at no point in a CIV strategy to you have to intercede on another player's Hut strategy. Instead, you can focus on the CIV cards you want, and occasionaly build a hut when it suits you. No stress.

I recently won with only 4 huts, but won the game by over 70 points simply by synergising CIV cards. All I had to do was spam the Wood generation and make sure I kept getting the CIV cards at any cost.
Not much strategy and a landslide victory.

Sorry, but if the rules FORCE you to sacrifice yourself to prevent another player winning (ala 7 Wonders science blocking), then the game fails IMO.

So I'm all for a way to make this balanced.
That's my rant
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Alex Drazen
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Quote:
Instead, if a player starts getting CIV cards, you are FORCED to intercede or you will lose every time. Huts cannot compete against a larger synergy of CIV cards. I'm not a fan of this.

If a player is attacking your King in Chess, you're obviously "forced" to defend him, lest your opponent win. Does that make it a bad game, just because you can't play your strategy, while you're stuck on defense? I'd think not.

Is Power Grid bad because you can't just sit there and let an opponent get a juicy plant at cost in the auction?

Lords of Waterdeep has the most "forced" strategy I can think of: here's your Lord. Get this stuff for bonus VP, or you'll probably lose. You can MQ a perceived leader if they're getting too far ahead. Is that forced?

Back to Stone Age: if you completely ignore civ cards, yeah, you'll lose. But I've won in 4P with lots of civ cards, and I've won with only a handful (the best handful being 3x, 2x, 2x huts and 2x meeples, with lots of huts).

Other than symbols, the civ cards have a public range of values. 1x meeple is 5-10 VP, 2x is 10-20 VP. Agriculture will vary based on the number of players (in 2P, a 2x agriculture is likely 10-20, in 4P probably only 6-12).

If someone is spamming the wood, the other players can stop them by squatting on it, or on cards. If that strategy feels "forced," well... Stone Age is a tactical game, and in tactical games, you need to employ the correct tactics. Similarly to Blokus, there will usually be optimal things to do -- as there will be in any game.

That's strategy games for you: if a player is going to create a powerful VP engine, yes, you're "forced" to intercede, lest you lose. Different games may have different ways of dealing with that (Waterdeep MQ, Catan robber, etc.), but it's hardly contained to Stone Age.

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Nomadic Gamer
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markgravitygood wrote:
arkayn wrote:

Have people already considered and rejected the idea of just keeping your cards face up? That seems to make the most sense to me in regards to reducing end of game "surprise" points. I mean, I never understood the point of having hidden trackable information in a game in the first place - it just slows things down while you try to remember what they "might" have and calculate what the points are worth.

Why not take the cards face up and immediately score the points that it's currently worth on the scoring track? For example:

a) When you buy a civ card with a different symbol than any you already have, it's worth 2n - 1, where n is the number of different civ cards you have in play including this one. The first symbol is worth 1. The second is worth 3, the third is worth 5, etc. This translates exactly to your total number of points from a set of civ cards equaling n * n. I still don't know if people agree on the second set of civ cards being scored the same as the first or just as 1 point per card, so score that however you would score that...

b) When you buy a multiplier, immediately score points for how much that multiplier is currently worth.

c) When you get another tool, person, field, or hut, gain points equal to the multipliers for that type on all of your civ cards.

I dunno, I guess maybe some people like hidden trackable information for some reason, but at least it would be better than changing the actual scoring for the game by limiting the worth of a particular card.

People run away from Dominant Species with their hair on fire because they think calculating Domination on a hex is "too much work". Apparently basic, simple math escapes the BGG crowd.

Now you want them to go and do Algebra nearly every turn playing Stone Age?

You're insane, dude. Hidden cards is a big part of the fun, and don't hide behind that old saw "tracking hidden information is so trivial and easy for our group we simply play with that information open to speed up the game" B.S. You're not foolin' anybody...Big Brother is watching...whistle
You're insane, dude.... Publicly awarded means just that; PUBLIC. It just punishes bad memory and rewards good memory. Tracking ain't fun or fast.
 
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