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Quarriors!» Forums » General

Subject: Anyone think the lockdown dragon is too safe? rss

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A.J. W
United States
North Carolina
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I was lucky enough to frequent a store which received a demo copy of Quarriors, and I put some time in it.

I wish you guys would stop preemptively taking my money. I'm sure that's a sympathy other members here have with their favorite companies and designers and new games on the horizon. :V

Anyways, there was a particular die that bothered me, one of the Dragon variants. It prevents any Level 2 or lower creatures from attacking the Dragon's player while it is out, period, and it seems there's a big lack of Lv. 3 dice (one game I played didn't have any other Lv. 3s out, so we had to rely on our own Dragons or the copying Slime to even have a chance to fight back... if the Dragon rolled Lv. 3). This set up ridiculous situations where it was pure luck of the draw; alone, that Dragon was a safe 4 Glory, but set up with any amount of scoring abilities or easy summons and a player could easily clear the game from last place and not sweat it. Everyone else would have to be ridiculously lucky with their rolls to compete at all, and in instances where there is a sparse population of high level creatures and no way to raise them up, that Dragon pretty much dominates every game.

It seems too powerful an ability to not be on a burst. It seems to reward players who rolled an 8 first round with an almost guaranteed win. I may have only had one day with the game, but that Dragon gives me the bad balance heebie-jeebies. Does anyone else who knows which creature I'm talking about get that feeling? Sorry I can't remember its name.
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Matt Barnes
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Bothell
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I haven't played the game. But in the past, if there was something that I felt was super overpowered.

1) You are playing it wrong.
or
2) Just don't play with that card.

There are plenty of other creatures to choose from anyways, and if it makes the games not as interesting, then remove it. People do the same thing in Dominion and other deck building games. If you randomize out 5 2's and 5 3's, you are probably going to change some out.

I don't think many games are 100% balanced, there are always powerful combos, especially with deck building games. You get a few cards out that work together, everyone gets those cards first. It is kind of how it goes.

I am not sure complaining about "lucky rolls" in a dice building game makes much sense. You named a couple cards that could counteract it, possibly, are there more? I can't really help out with THIS game's mechanics and balance, as I have not played it yet.
 
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A.J. W
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I've only gotten one day with it, so I haven't drummed up any house rules for the card.

From what little I know, and how often there are few dice in a pool to defend against it, it seems there isn't much to do about it. I mentioned before, unless I read the card wrong (it was a non-Burst ability that mentioned Lv. 2 or lower creatures could not attack the player), the pools are often highly unsuited for combating that particular die without using that die. No game I've played ever pulled up more than 2 Lv. 3 capable dice (and that's one face out of six, mind), and there's only one spell I've seen that would act as a defense against the creature.

You may have something when you mentioned I misread the card. The bursts on the card mentioned they have no ability for that particular burst, but it might actually say that the burst stops all abilities on that card. I'll have to look into it the next time I get a chance to play the game.

EDIT: Here is the card in question, at the bottom. This arrangement is almost one of the ones I was talking about. There is in fact a Lv. 3 here, but his attack is so low that he's worthless in trying to stop the Dragon or to thin out his party. The point I'm making is that the Dragon, when its in play, becomes unstoppable by anybody in even highly exceptional circumstances and by extension his entire party is a free score. This is just my opinion out of what I've seen though, and it could be that I or the group I've been with can't play at a high enough level to get around him.

It's the feeling that no particular effort was made for someone to get such a safe, powerful move that bothers me about the die.
 
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Zoltán Mészáros
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Budaörs
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It seems you understand the card well.

Hovewer it's a 8 cost card, which could be destroyed (even if only with other dragons), and must be summoned for Quditty to use.. it should be powerfull. I guess that dragons rule, combined with combos in this setup,(like the Witching Hag and Portal to use them as much as possible) so there is some tactics involved, even with unstoppabe dragons.

You could compare it with the Victory Cantrip on the same setup, 9 cost undefendable 3 victory point, with 0 summoning cost.
 
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A.J. W
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North Carolina
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It looked like 2 glory to me, but it is true that it's a safe glory gain either way. Its lower value however makes it much less progressive than Strong Quake Dragon is, and as you mentioned (and all other cards unknown aside) Dragon could be comboed with that Hag to keep him constantly on the board (and hit for 7 glory!) whereas you'd have to draw and get a 1/3 roll on Victory Cantrip twice to four times every turn to emulate the same success.

More analysis, and maybe I'm missing something. 4p games did feel unusually short, given the 6-8 point swings make-able. With more time, maybe I can come up with more offensive approaches that don't allow for such chaotic gains and cause other players in turn to think more about their buys and rerolls.
 
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Carl Bussema
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Lansing
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It is very strong. I played a game with it and the Defender of the Pale (also pictured, although we had one without a burst ability so it must have been a lower one), and the Defender was doing just fine. At the end though, it was definitely about the Quake Dragons and if you rolled one on level 3 especially with any other creatures (fueled by portals to nab extra dice), it was pretty much safe because only the level 3 Quake Dragon of an opponent was anything you had to worry about.

Without more games, I couldn't say "broken" or just "really good."
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Anderson
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Unless the Dragon is on his sixth side, he can be wiped out by the Death Spell. There's also another spell that lets a player move all of his creature up one level, so that makes getting to level 3 a bit easier, especially if there's more than 1 creature on the board with a level 3 face. Then after scoring the Dragon, it goes away. I don't see a problem with him yet.
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