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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne» Forums » Rules

Subject: Questions from our recent game rss

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Aneurin Kennerley
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Played our first TI3 game with the Shards expansion at the weekend but a few questions still remained even after the release of the FAQ.

1) If a player has (multiple) support of the throne promissory notes and the game ends with the Imperium Rex Public Objective... does the player with the most VP on the Track win or can a player that is 1 point behind but has 2 support of the throne win?

The wording on the objective "the player with the most VP" would suggest it is explicit to the track, but the promissory note says "you require 1 less VP to win". Both can trump the other depending on how you read it.

The other point that caused much contention was:

2) when does the Naalu and AC retreat happen? It says before the first round of a space battle. I argued this included the pre-combat rolls (anti-fighter, assault cannons etc)... others thought it didn't.

The only other point is when using the secondary of diplomacy II what is considered an empty planet? Neutral only or can we include enemy planets with only a control marker?
 
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Samuel C.
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Twilight Geek wrote:

The only other point is when using the secondary of diplomacy II what is considered an empty planet? Neutral only or can we include enemy planets with only a control marker?


I think both, but I'm not 100% sure.

Good other questions. I, personally, really dislike random "Here - have a point!" cards, so I haven't played with the promissaries yet.
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Brian Petersen
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I believe the SE rulebook under Dip II explains what planets can and cannot get claimed. MR cannot. Planets with Distant Suns tokens, revealed or not, neutral planets, and planets controlled by enemies with no units whatsoever on it may all be claimed. I don't believe the same planet may be claimed by multiple people.

My group avoids answering that first question by not giving that note, unless that vote ensures our victory that round. If the game ends early, I'd give the win to the player who met most of the objectives over someone who swung the vote a couple times for extremely desperate players.

The Naalu retreat happens before the Space Battle step of the Tactical Action, so no pre-combat abilities are triggered. PDS fire and space mines still happen, since those are after the movement step. Naalu Retreat must be resolved immediately after those two.

The AC "Skilled Retreat" happens immediately before a round of space battle, so pre-combat effects still happen. If you consider the AC to be a pre-combat effect, you get to do all the pre-combat effects, then retreat before the attacker's pre-combat effects.
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Guido Gloor
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Twilight Geek wrote:
If a player has (multiple) support of the throne promissory notes and the game ends with the Imperium Rex Public Objective... does the player with the most VP on the Track win or can a player that is 1 point behind but has 2 support of the throne win?

The wording on the objective "the player with the most VP" would suggest it is explicit to the track, but the promissory note says "you require 1 less VP to win". Both can trump the other depending on how you read it.

Hm, I'm not sure about this one. Personally, I'd probably rule that the track is the only thing that counts for Imperium Rex. After all, the promissory note could just give you 1 VP if it would be equivalent to having one more VP in all respects, and the reading "I require 1 less VP to win, thus my VP should really count as being 1 higher" is a bit far-fetched to me. The promissory note (and the laws that do the same thing) really only seems to talk about a VP victory, to me.

Twilight Geek wrote:
when does the Naalu and AC retreat happen? It says before the first round of a space battle. I argued this included the pre-combat rolls (anti-fighter, assault cannons etc)... others thought it didn't.

The important thing here is the wording of the Naalu ability: "If attacked, The Naalu fleet may retreat before the beginning of the Space Battle step of the Tactical Action sequence." The Space Battle step is defined on page 15 of the rules and includes all pre-combat effects, so the Naalu retreat technically is not before the first round of a space battle at all but rather before a battle even begins to start. They completely avoid the enemy. Note however that PDS fire is not part of the pre-combat effects but rather a separate step of the Tactical Action sequence, so PDS may fire before the Naalu can retreat.

Twilight Geek wrote:
The only other point is when using the secondary of diplomacy II what is considered an empty planet? Neutral only or can we include enemy planets with only a control marker?

The SE rules (page 14, in the extended version of the strategy card rules) explicitly allow claiming an empty planet that has an enemy control marker on it with the Diplomacy II secondary:

SE rules wrote:
This ability allows players to spend a Command Counter and 3 influence in order to claim one empty planet (one without any Ground Forces, Leaders, PDSs, or Space Docks on it) adjacent to a system they control, even if another player controls the target planet. Once a player executes this ability, he or she immediately places a Control Marker on the planet and claims the corresponding planet card (which the player receives in its exhausted state).
Important: A player may not annex a planet that another player annexed this turn, and no player may annex Mecatol Rex.
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Aneurin Kennerley
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Thanks for the answers guys...

1 more point... which I dont think is clear in the rule book. Do you have to send a representative if you are able or can you just not bother? We were playing a game with the Virus and most rounds I abstained by not taking a rep at all rather than risk him being killed at the hands of the virus.
 
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Guido Gloor
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Twilight Geek wrote:
Do you have to send a representative if you are able or can you just not bother? We were playing a game with the Virus and most rounds I abstained by not taking a rep at all rather than risk him being killed at the hands of the virus.

The rules do not speak about "may choose a representative", but rather "Each player decides which Representative he wants to send to the Galactic Council", this does not seem to open the option of not sending one.

Also, later, the rules talk about the two possible things that could make a player have to abstain from voting due to a missing representative: "If a player’s Representative was assassinated (or killed, see below), he may not participate in the voting. A player who did not have a Representative to send to the Galactic Council also may not vote."

This list seems to be exhaustive. Since there is no mention of a player who could have sent a representative but didn't, there doesn't seem to be such a possibility.
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