Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
25 Posts

Navia Dratp» Forums » Play By Forum

Subject: PBF Drafting Process (Commentary Welcome) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
During our current Play By Forum, Dudical and I began discussing our next game, to be played at a later date. We decided to break away from using only the master sets, and use a drafting process to choose from the full roster of 44 Masetai. I've created this thread so that Navia Dratp newcomers and veterans alike can watch the process play out, and see some of the reasonings behind our choices.

Dudical kindly took the first pick (which gives me the advantage of final pick), and choose Chakrabat. A very good choice, methinks; very handy power, and good movement (Gold General from Shogi).

Quote:

Drafting: I'll take the initiative with one of my all-time favorite Guards Chakrabat
bagbagbagbagbagEconomy-Controlbagbagbagbagbag
Ahhh, sorry I didn't read your message fully...
Let's do a mock-up draft, then just talk about what makes which group tick better. All the hidden onlookers are welcome in this discussion since it will have no bearing on the current game...

-Aye-Deebs, what do you think of Chakrabat?



I'm not sure if it's customary for me to also choose a Navia Guard as my first choice (let me know, dudical). But in lieu of that, I'm gonna go with Viskunmateus as my top pick. He's probably one of my least favorite sculpts, but looks aside, he's really cool. He's the only character who can unDratp himself, to allow for easy switching between two movement patterns. But more importantly, he's the only character who can move like a Chess Knight. Why this is the case, I have no idea, since Shogi also has a tradition of Knight characters with a similar movement pattern.



dudical D Beau

Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2:
Choice 3:
Choice 4:
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia:

Point Totals: 4pts 4pts



[The numbers in parenthesis are the point value of the characters. For reference, the red and blue starter sets have point values of 59 and 49, respectively. There is nothing in the rules to stop either of us from going for a much lower or much higher point value army, so the numbers are merely for reference.]
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:

Koma

Well chosen, a favorite piece all around!


dudical D Beau

Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts)
Choice 3:
Choice 4:
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia:

Point Totals: 12pts 4pts


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Koma is a proven winner. He can really control the flow of the battlefield as a blocking piece. And you have to be careful to keep him constantly in check, because I'm sure he could be a real beast as an attacking piece. His drapt ability is just the icing on the cake.


dudical D Beau

Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3:
Choice 4:
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia:

Point Totals: 12pts 11pts


In sharp contrast to Viskunmateus, Nemchant is my absolute favorite sculpt. I probably should have waited to draft him (since none of your guys so far have terribly dramatic post-drapt effects), but I didn't want to risk you taking him. ninja
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
D Beau wrote:
Koma is a proven winner. He can really control the flow of the battlefield as a blocking piece. And you have to be careful to keep him constantly in check, because I'm sure he could be a real beast as an attacking piece. His drapt ability is just the icing on the cake.

In sharp contrast to Viskunmateus, Nemchant is my absolute favorite sculpt. I probably should have waited to draft him (since none of your guys so far have terribly dramatic post-drapt effects), but I didn't want to risk you taking him. ninja


Drats, you got him before me!

But I'll take the Immortal Pain-in-the-rear Coydrocomp


dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts)
Choice 4:
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE •

Point Totals: 25pts 11pts

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dudical wrote:
Drats, you got him before me!

But I'll take the Immortal Pain-in-the-rear Coydrocomp


Hey, at least my Nemchant sorta has a purpose now! Fun Fact: During an Unleashed Darkness-only match with my brother, I somehow managed to pin his Navia with my Coy. He couldn't go in for the kill, but I bet she was unnerved by the look he was giving her!



dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4:
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 25pts 14pts



Kapinahs has to be better than Kapinah, right? I mean, he's plural! Seems fairly limited (especially compared to his singular version), but for only 3 points, he should be good for a surprise fork. I hope.


BTW, I'll have to find a suitable replacement for Persephone on my gameboard. I should have something good in my Big Box of Heroscape. I'm thinking maybe Raelin... ooooor maybe Ogre Pulverizer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel B
Sweden
Kungsbacka
flag msg tools
128
badge
22
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:

-Aye-Deebs, what do you think of Chakrabat?

Never play him myself, I just can't get it right. I do however greatly fear the 'bat with an opponent playing him well.

Quote:
dudical D Beau
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora


This is however a huge mistake. How could none of you select Io or Hillgao, by far the two greatest Navias!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Deebs wrote:
Quote:

-Aye-Deebs, what do you think of Chakrabat?

Never play him myself, I just can't get it right. I do however greatly fear the 'bat with an opponent playing him well.

I've got him in the Zone before. And when you can have him sit there, spending 1g to burn 4gs of your enemy, there's got a big problem.
To counter Bat, I usually have a turtle, or SunnyG, Troll, or G'bon devil
Quote:
dudical D Beau
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora


This is however a huge mistake. How could none of you select Io or Hillgao, by far the two greatest Navias![/q]

It's always good to try something new!
My favorite used to be Estelle, just because she seemed to have everything under control just sitting on her 'throne' Then I was into Kraa for a while. My current favorite is Io, because she seems so out of place and 'cause I dig my paint-job laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
I somehow managed to pin his Navia with my Coy. He couldn't go in for the kill, but I bet she was unnerved by the look he was giving her!

Hah, fun!
I've picked off many a Maseitai with him, and visa-versa

Quote:
Kapinahs has to be better than Kapinah, right? I mean, he's plural! Seems fairly limited (especially compared to his singular version), but for only 3 points, he should be good for a surprise fork. I hope.


Villan! One of my all-time favorite pieces. I was actually vacillating between Kapinahs and Coydro.
And Kapinahs is definitely a 'best bang for the buck'

I once played a mean Kapinah/Kapinahs combo within the enemy ranks. Everything went crazy when he flipped on Nemchant

Kairas will give you a run for the money though!


dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts)
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 25pts 14pts







Quote:
BTW, I'll have to find a suitable replacement for Persephone on my gameboard. I should have something good in my Big Box of Heroscape. I'm thinking maybe Raelin... ooooor maybe Ogre Pulverizer.

Go with the Archangel whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My next choice was gonna be between Kairas and Laynard, but now that you grabbed the former, the latter suddenly looks like a second class citizen. Kai seems like such a good hit-n-run piece!


dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts) Gyullas Turtle (5pts)
Choice 5:
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 25pts 19pts



I guess I'll take your advice and draft Gyullas Turtle, in case you get a bit overbearing with Chakrabat. I know I already said Nemchant was my favorite sculpt, but that was a lie. It's the turtle, it's always been the turtle.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
D Beau wrote:
My next choice was gonna be between Kairas and Laynard, but now that you grabbed the former, the latter suddenly looks like a second class citizen. Kai seems like such a good hit-n-run piece!


I too have been thinking of Laynard. He works quite well in conjunction with Nemchant.

But I still need some cheap dudes, and Nebguard is a rockstar!


dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts) Gyullas Turtle (5pts)
Choice 5: Nebguard (3pts)
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 28pts 19pts



It's so interesting how every piece that your the other side chooses effects every part of the overall strategy within your head robot
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dudical wrote:

But I still need some cheap dudes, and Nebguard is a rockstar!


Can't fault you for that. I didn't use him terribly effectively in our first game, but I've spent the majority of our current game tiptoeing around the bastid! He's been a major factor in nearly ALL of my moves.


dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts) Gyullas Turtle (5pts)
Choice 5: Nebguard (3pts) Olip (5pts)
Choice 6:
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 28pts 24pts


Pretty simple reasoning, I suppose; with Nemchant, I might manage to get two uses out of Olip and/or Kapinahs.

-----------
On a side note, I had a couple ideas last night for alternate styles of draft. They're probably not new concepts, so I was wondering if you've ever tried them out.

The first was the standard back and forth, but you choose your opponents' pieces rather than your own. I figured there are probably some figs that never get used (I'm looking at you, Kanaba!), and this would be a good way to get them in play.

The second idea is way cooler, and that's to have a dynamic draft (or maybe think of it as a mercenary draft). ALL 44 characters sit to the side of the board, and players from either side can summon them at will, as needed. Whether you can summon unlimited times or only the standard seven would have to be decided beforehand, but unlimited would naturally be cooler.

One problem I could forsee with dynamic drafting is that players might greedily fill their summon squares with the best characters right off the bat, and it would end up being a regular draft, just with the summon squares replacing the Keep. I don't know if this sort of thing would happen or not, but the idea is to summon characters on-the-fly, as the situation on the battlefield calls for it, so this would be no good. The most obvious solution would be, rather than both players selecting from a shared pool, each player has their own pool of all 44 masetai. surprisesurprise

So are these ideas crazy in a good way, or crazy in a crazy way? Has anybody ever tried anything similar?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
D Beau wrote:
dudical wrote:

But I still need some cheap dudes, and Nebguard is a rockstar!


Can't fault you for that. I didn't use him terribly effectively in our first game, but I've spent the majority of our current game tiptoeing around the bastid! He's been a major factor in nearly ALL of my moves.

Tricky bugger

OK, I'll have to go with one of my favorite under-rated pieces - Gundrill. I've just been having a ton of fun with him lately!



dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts) Gyullas Turtle (5pts)
Choice 5: Nebguard (3pts) Olip (5pts)
Choice 6: Gundrill (6pts)
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 34pts 24pts


Quote:
Pretty simple reasoning, I suppose; with Nemchant, I might manage to get two uses out of Olip and/or Kapinahs.

Indeed - good choice.

-----------
Quote:
On a side note, I had a couple ideas last night for alternate styles of draft. They're probably not new concepts, so I was wondering if you've ever tried them out.

The first was the standard back and forth, but you choose your opponents' pieces rather than your own. I figured there are probably some figs that never get used (I'm looking at you, Kanaba!), and this would be a good way to get them in play.

Yes, that's called reverse-drafting, and it's a ton of fun. I've had a ton of success with Kanaba though. And he too is great with Nemchant!

Quote:
The second idea is way cooler, and that's to have a dynamic draft (or maybe think of it as a mercenary draft). ALL 44 characters sit to the side of the board, and players from either side can summon them at will, as needed. Whether you can summon unlimited times or only the standard seven would have to be decided beforehand, but unlimited would naturally be cooler.

One problem I could forsee with dynamic drafting is that players might greedily fill their summon squares with the best characters right off the bat, and it would end up being a regular draft, just with the summon squares replacing the Keep. I don't know if this sort of thing would happen or not, but the idea is to summon characters on-the-fly, as the situation on the battlefield calls for it, so this would be no good. The most obvious solution would be, rather than both players selecting from a shared pool, each player has their own pool of all 44 masetai. surprisesurprise


Yes neat ideas, I've pondered the same... I've also been thinking of ND#2 where the players are teaming up against the board (Zuruvan) though it's a project way on the back burners.
Quote:

So are these ideas crazy in a good way, or crazy in a crazy way? Has anybody ever tried anything similar?


If you browse through the forums, you will find one from last year on the very subject
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dudical wrote:


OK, I'll have to go with one of my favorite under-rated pieces - Gundrill. I've just been having a ton of fun with him lately!


Certainly can't argue with that, seeing as how he did me in in the previous game.



dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts) Gyullas Turtle (5pts)
Choice 5: Nebguard (3pts) Olip (5pts)
Choice 6: Gundrill (6pts) Gilgame III (5pts)
Choice 7:
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 34pts 29pts


Gil should be able to cover my back, and with a bit of synergy, maybe yours too! Plus, the sculpt is incredible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb



dudical D Beau
Choice 1: Chakrabat (4pts) Viskunmateus (4pts)
Choice 2: Koma (8pts) Nemchant (7pts)
Choice 3: Coydrocomp (13pts) Kapinahs (3pts)
Choice 4: Kairas (6pts) Gyullas Turtle (5pts)
Choice 5: Nebguard (3pts) Olip (5pts)
Choice 6: Gundrill (6pts) Gilgame III (5pts)
Choice 7:Lord kiggoshi (25pts)
Navia: PERSEPHONE • Debora

Point Totals: 59pts 29pts


Quote:

Gil should be able to cover my back, and with a bit of synergy, maybe yours too! Plus, the sculpt is incredible.

another great piece!

And I'll go with Captain Boom-Boom!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John McKendrick
United Kingdom
Glasgow
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Oooft! ninja A bit like the fireball in Knightmare Chess

What happens to any Navia in the smart bomb area?

-John
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JohnMcKendrick wrote:
Oooft! ninja A bit like the fireball in Knightmare Chess

What happens to any Navia in the smart bomb area?

-John


Navias are NEVER effected by dratp EFFECTS - only movement.

So Midrah blows up everything in its column except Navias, Chug makes all it's pieces Except the Navia gain an additional +1g per move, Tagu never gives the Navia a move... etc.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John McKendrick
United Kingdom
Glasgow
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
That's pretty much what I thought, thanks. OK let's get our party started

-John
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK D Beau,
I'm going to guess that your going with MIDRAH whistle
OR, maybe that crazy Kanaba
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Long Rambling Post
Yeah, I realize I just insulted him the other day, but Kanaba is suddenly looking mighty attractive. I've pretty much ruled Midrah out though. You could easily just wait until you had the cash and summon Lord K the turn before using him, and unless I were to somehow keep Midrah's entire rank clear, you could just slip Kigo' in somewhere where Midrah is blocked . But Kanaba... hmmm...


I suppose I could be a dick and just go with the Lord's lil' bro, but that's no fun. And plus, those 25 gyullas are a tempting target, even if I know your Chakrabat would never let me Navia Dratp.

My other contenders for the slot don't really address Kigoshi directly, but simply flesh out my army. I could go with Agun, so I'd have some muscle to work with. A tricky sneak-attacker like Sabageo, Hansa or Kapinah (having both Kaps would be too cool). Netol, as partial Lord K insurance. Oriondober, mainly just to be a nuisance, but also so Koma doesn't have sole control over the flow of the early game. And I'm strongly considering Kanimiso, just to put a thorn in your side, as I'm sure your Nebguard will do for me yuk.

My initial choice was actually Tagu (I even had the post all written out). He seems like he could be a real game-changer if used properly, and I think it would be tough for you to mentally stay two moves ahead (at least it would be for me). The only problem is that -- if my interpretation of the wording is correct -- he allows for two moves, and not two turns. The difference is (and correct me if I'm wrong), drapting is not part of a "move"(though capturing can be).

So, yeah, I'm pretty much considering half the field. I must say, Lord Kigoshi is an interesting choice, and has really got me thinking. The only time I've played against him was against my bro, so he was sort of a non-threat. I even let him collect the gyullas for the guys he blew up, just to to keep things interesting. But in your hands... zombie

If it's alright with you, I'll keep the suspense up until we're both ready to actually play the game. For me, that'll take a little while; this game tends to drain me, and it'll take time for me to replenish my supply of mental gyullas crystals.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All good choices.

Quote:
My initial choice was actually Tagu (I even had the post all written out). He seems like he could be a real game-changer if used properly, and I think it would be tough for you to mentally stay two moves ahead (at least it would be for me). The only problem is that -- if my interpretation of the wording is correct -- he allows for two moves, and not two turns. The difference is (and correct me if I'm wrong), drapting is not part of a "move"(though capturing can be).


Dratp, or move, then dratp (Tagu): Power = Move any two BPs (Navia is not a BP)
Moving Gulled still earns you money... Maseitai do not get to dratp as part of this double move
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I assume Invoking would be excluded too. thumbsdown

Even with those limitations though, it still seems like a pretty potent ability. Lots of potential for setting up a sneaky mate. At the very least, you'd make your opponent sweat, having to think twice as hard every turn.

Take this set up from our previous game as an example:


Now, pretend I've got Tagu on the board, and ignore the fact that I'm a gyulla short to actually dratp him. So he dratps, and then, Move 1: Agun takes Moses (then say "check" in a really evil voice devil), Move 2: he captures Debs.

Pretty nasty, but then again maybe I just really want to like the character cause his sculpt is so radass. laugh
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
D Beau wrote:
I assume Invoking would be excluded too. thumbsdown

Even with those limitations though, it still seems like a pretty potent ability. Lots of potential for setting up a sneaky mate. At the very least, you'd make your opponent sweat, having to think twice as hard every turn.

Now, pretend I've got Tagu on the board, and ignore the fact that I'm a gyulla short to actually dratp him. So he dratps, and then, Move 1: Agun takes Moses (then say "check" in a really evil voice devil), Move 2: he captures Debs.

Pretty nasty, but then again maybe I just really want to like the character cause his sculpt is so radass. laugh


Correct on No Dratp/Effects(invoke).

Tagus ability lets you move TWO OTHER figs once.
Not the same dude twice gulp

So if Ham was already dratped, and the RG infront of Mo, was instead infront of Deb... You then dratp tagu to make both figs attack, with a double check which is self supported.
-Ham taking the RG now on C6, and Agu taking Mo. Debs only move is to take one of the attackers, and she's then taken by the other, so she may as well surrender and see the error of her ways
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's a neat problem involving Tagu, who starts the mating sequence off.
It's a tricky problem though, because it's NOT an instant mate, and you need to figure out the rest devil

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/2645644#2645644
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dudical wrote:


Correct on No Dratp/Effects(invoke).

Tagus ability lets you move TWO OTHER figs once.
Not the same dude twice gulp


Ah, you're right. That part eluded me. Disappointing, but I suppose he probably would be too powerful the other way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
N Koff
United States
Portage
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tiny, Neso, Netol, Kanaba, Kapinah, Kanimiso and G'bon all look like good choices against my last choice. Neso is one of my all-time favorites, and one I was considering earlier.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.