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Capes & Cowls: The Superhero Board Game» Forums » General

Subject: Last Price on Ebay rss

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Adam Clausing
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barryzimm wrote:
Yeah, I simply looked under a link called forum rules and there wasn't anything about mentioning an ebay auction. It seems you'd have to be awfully BGG savy to figure out how to do all that. When I donate to BGG this year I'll add in the 3% from the sale.


To be honest, I probably would have done the same thing if I were in your shoes not knowing the proper BGG etiquette either. Live and learn.

... Still made out like a bandit.

Who is going to put their copy out on the market next? $382 is pretty good coin!
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Christopher Paul
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I can't help but wonder if playing the game is worth as much as it's selling for (collectability aside). From those who have played it - if your copy got stolen, or destroyed, how much would you be willing to pay to replace it?

I only ask b/c sometimes these "grail" games get so desirable that people want them just b/c they see how much other people want it and can't get it, and there are so few copies out there it's hard to evaluate how much fun it actually is. (Just for the record, I want Capes and Cowls pretty bad too! )

Dune was worth my time to make my own copy. Magic Realm (so far) has been worth my Small World collection. Would Capes and Cowls stand up to its high costs?

(And at these costs, couldn't the designer afford to hire somebody to take orders, and re-publish the game on an "as-wanted" basis and still make bucks?)

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Scott Everts
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Victory Point Games would be a good place to do "on demand" copies of this. They are already setup to do printing in time with orders. They don't warehouse or print in China. Everything is done in their shop. Considering the simple components the original game had, this would be right up their alley.
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Scott Everts
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mbourgeois wrote:
ScottE wrote:
Victory Point Games would be a good place to do "on demand" copies of this. They are already setup to do printing in time with orders. They don't warehouse or print in China. Everything is done in their shop. Considering the simple components the original game had, this would be right up their alley.


I really like Victory Point Games but how much would something like Capes and Cowls cost to produce? I paid $60 for mine when they had 3 or 4 for sale on Amazon... what do you think the charge would be now?

That's a good question. It does have a lot of paper in it, though nothing complex to print. The big cost for VPG is the supply cost & labor so I expect it would be in the $50 range. I'm sure people would be annoyed at that price point but on demand printing is much more expensive then running 5000 copies in China.
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Barry Zimmerman
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I'd pay $200+ to get it back some day. But, kids need braces and you can't turn down that kind of money for cardboard. Besides, although it was still our most played game, we use our custom characters far more than the origonals and have the rules memorized.
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Barry Zimmerman
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I can honestly say we got $380 worth out of it and I hope the guy that bought it does!
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Christopher Paul
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barryzimm wrote:
I can honestly say we got $380 worth out of it and I hope the guy that bought it does!


Great, just what I needed to hear! (You're supposed to tell me it's overrated! )
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Adam Clausing
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I asked this in the other thread that got deleted, but the Victory Point Games idea kind of brings it back up.

From my understanding, which may be incorrect, Spriggs (the designer) and Jazz Lieberman of Wyrd House Publishing had a falling out. This prevented any further reprints of the game. Could Spriggs go ahead and reprint the game by going to another publisher or does the publisher (Wyrd House) own partial rights to the game?

This is why I was thinking that if a reprint were to ever be made, there would need to be changes of some sort.
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Bobloblah wrote:
fightcitymayor wrote:
As much as I like C&C, that has to be one of the stone cold silliest prices paid for a game in recent memory.
Seeing as I paid a not dissimilar "silly price" for the game recently, I'd be interested in knowing why you think it's a stone cold silly price...
I will totally be the first person to preorder if a reprint is ever done, so don't take me for a hater, but there's barely $50 worth of game here, much less $382.

1) It's not like the world is struggling for another skirmish minis game. Specifically, it's not like the world is struggling for another "superheroes beat on each other" game
2) We're talking everything here is just cardboard, no funky dice, no plastic swords, no custom meeples, just cardboard! Like someone else has said, "Not far from a Victory Point Games production."
3) It's just an 8x8 square map! No soaring mountains, no painted desert, no secret crevasse, just a bunch of colored squares! And some made-up characters with exactly 4 traits to each of them.
4) It's not like some 30-year-old holy grail wargame that is whispered about in hushed tones by the old masters. The game is barely 5 years old, and I'd wager most people wouldn't even know it existed if it wouldn't have blinked into and out of print, with little known of the publisher or the designer.

and most importantly:
5) $382 buys an awful lot of great in-print games that you can play while you wait for this game to be re-released.

I mean, I am 100% totally for the free-market deciding the prices, so god bless the seller for making his loot and god bless the buyer for getting what he wanted. But I have a blue buddha statue on my shelf that i am staring at as I type this. I bought him at Target for $5, and if you walked up to me and offered me $382 for him, i would certainly take your money, but I would also call you stone cold silly at the same time.
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fightcitymayor wrote:
Bobloblah wrote:
fightcitymayor wrote:
As much as I like C&C, that has to be one of the stone cold silliest prices paid for a game in recent memory.
Seeing as I paid a not dissimilar "silly price" for the game recently, I'd be interested in knowing why you think it's a stone cold silly price...
I will totally be the first person to preorder if a reprint is ever done, so don't take me for a hater, but there's barely $50 worth of game here, much less $382.

1) It's not like the world is struggling for another skirmish minis game. Specifically, it's not like the world is struggling for another "superheroes beat on each other" game
2) We're talking everything here is just cardboard, no funky dice, no plastic swords, no custom meeples, just cardboard! Like someone else has said, "Not far from a Victory Point Games production."
3) It's just an 8x8 square map! No soaring mountains, no painted desert, no secret crevasse, just a bunch of colored squares! And some made-up characters with exactly 4 traits to each of them.
4) It's not like some 30-year-old holy grail wargame that is whispered about in hushed tones by the old masters. The game is barely 5 years old, and I'd wager most people wouldn't even know it existed if it wouldn't have blinked into and out of print, with little known of the publisher or the designer.

and most importantly:
5) $382 buys an awful lot of great in-print games that you can play while you wait for this game to be re-released.

I mean, I am 100% totally for the free-market deciding the prices, so god bless the seller for making his loot and god bless the buyer for getting what he wanted. But I have a blue buddha statue on my shelf that i am staring at as I type this. I bought him at Target for $5, and if you walked up to me and offered me $382 for him, i would certainly take your money, but I would also call you stone cold silly at the same time.


You make some valid points. Thanks for the perspective. Always helps to see both sides of the argument.

I honestly don't know whether I'd pay the 382. Perhaps I'd go as high as 300, but it seems like an awful lot to pay for something like this. Would my opinion change if I played a game of it? Perhaps, but I think I'm already willing to stake a lot of money as it is, sight unseen and game unplayed.

Hopefully the market will open up with more copies soon, as there are many of us who are willing to pay the dosh, I just don't know that there are many of us who are willing to pay -that- much.

I don't begrudge the seller at all, he took advantage of the market, and good for him. But I'm hoping this is the high tide of prices. Consider this: three copies have sold this year, all of them in July. That's pretty impressive for this game. Does that mean that the flood gates are finally opening?

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Stefano Castelli
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Sol Invictus wrote:
Since the original post seems to have been deleted along with the associated thread, this is just a post to note that Capes and Cowls sold on Ebay earlier this evening for approximately 382.51. May be helpful in future discussions, and in tracking the value/rarity of the item in question.




It may also help to trigger one simple question: why no one reprints this game?
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Dave
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A couple of quick devil's advocate-y questions about the eBay sale price and the demand for this game.

Is there really enough of a demand for the game that a reprint would sell? It only takes two bidders (or in this case 4 or 5) for an item to sell for a crazy amount, especially with the bottled up demand.

There are 160 users on boardgamegeek that have this game listed as a want, but does that really translate into enough sales to warrant a re-print? Some number less than 160 from that list will actually buy a re-print (it's a safe assumption that not everyone who has it as a want would buy it, for one reason or another), but how many additional people on boardgamegeek would buy it? How many people outside of the geek would buy it who have never heard of it and would just see a generic super hero game on the shelves? How many people would spend $50 or $60 on it if it weren't so scarce?

Putting it another way, if the designer were to try and publish this game using kickstarter or a pre-order system like GMT's P500, would there be enough interest to get the game made?
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Yes, it would sell at least that much. It doesn't have the backing Marvel or DC, but there's enough room in the 'super hero skirmish' game genre that this would sell. It would not sell like a mass market game, of course, and it might not even be a hobby gaming best seller, but certainly enough to warrant a reprint.
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FlyingArrow wrote:
Yes, it would sell at least that much. It doesn't have the backing Marvel or DC, but there's enough room in the 'super hero skirmish' game genre that this would sell. It would not sell like a mass market game, of course, and it might not even be a hobby gaming best seller, but certainly enough to warrant a reprint.

I appreciate your zeal, but that is one big assertion.
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astroglide wrote:

I appreciate your zeal, but that is one big assertion.


Well - let me add a caveat. Assume the game has reasonable backing by a real publisher to create some buzz, and then a price appropriate to the components. $60 for the game as it was published the first time probably would not work.

Look at Strange Synergy or Heroes Incorporated - the closest comparisons. That is, superhero games not tied to any major brand. By pretty much any measure, players like Capes & Cowls better than either of those two games. Check the ratings - for example, C&C has more 9 or 10 ratings than either of the other two games, even though C&C has less than 25% of the number of ratings they have.

But those two games list 300+ and 400+ owners. I think it's safe to say that not every owner lists their ownership on BGG, so each of those games probably had a print run of 1000 or so. That's just a guess based on the numbers I see here. Granted, I've seen those games on clearance, so I don't know if they actually made money on the games. Maybe they lost money having to sell it for 90% off. Then again, I see pretty much every game on clearance eventually, so it's hard to say.

At any rate, C&C is a game in the same genre as those two with much more positive reviews, and there hasn't really been any other recent game to compete with it head to head*. That makes me think it would do at least as well as them if it's with a publisher that promotes it much at all.


---
* As far as I can tell, the world of superhero skirmish games is still sparsely populated: Heroclix, Heroscape Marvel, Strange Synergy, and Capes & Cowls. None in the past few years. But let me know if I missed any. By skirmish game I mean dudes on a map fighting each other... not a card game or a strategy level game like Marvel Heroes or Heroes Incorporated.

** That sure turned into a longer post than I expected. My first post was just a gut feeling, but after looking at the ownership numbers, I don't think 500 sales is a stretch at all.
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~Ryan McSwain
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Every time the game went up for sale, the entire inventory sold out almost immediately.

If you're able to sell every copy of something right off the bat, I would call that a success. It also shows there is plenty of interest, or at least enough to keep producing the game in small numbers.

I'd love to see this go up on kickstarter, say with the goal of raising enough money to print 1,000 copies. That would show without a doubt if it is a viable product when it isn't in short supply.
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Mike McDrunk
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Another copy has surfaced on eBay... It will be interesting if anyone bites at the large starting price.
[url]http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...BSS:US:1123[/url]

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Robert Loblah
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Wow. Even I think that's expensive.
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Scott Everts
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Yeah, that's rather insane but someone might bite!
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Bill Paradise
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I'm sooo glad, that I got my copy when I did. Now I can just sit back and watch and not be seduced by the temptaion.
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ScottE wrote:
Yeah, that's rather insane but someone might bite!


Unless the person who bid $381 found a copy somewhere else, someone probably will.
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Mike McDrunk
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and for $1000 we have the latest entry on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0963429647/ref=wl_it_...


good luck with that price although you never know....
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Scott Everts
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mcdrunk wrote:
and for $1000 we have the latest entry on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0963429647/ref=wl_it_...


good luck with that price although you never know....

Now that is really insane. I thought the $380 on eBay right now was high. And so far that one hasn't gotten a bid yet. Seriously, its not THAT good of a game!
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Bill Paradise
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mcdrunk wrote:
and for $1000 we have the latest entry on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0963429647/ref=wl_it_...


good luck with that price although you never know....


surprise wow
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crunk_posby wrote:
I can't help but wonder if playing the game is worth as much as it's selling for (collectability aside). From those who have played it - if your copy got stolen, or destroyed, how much would you be willing to pay to replace it?


I wouldn't pay this kind of money for ANY game. Period. It's absolutely insane. That recent eBay auction may have been a fluke. I recently sold a Descent expansion on there and got $150 for it simply because I had two maniacs bid it up. A quick search on eBay shows that the same expansion has never gone for so much before or since.

fightcitymayor wrote:
and most importantly:
5) $382 buys an awful lot of great in-print games that you can play while you wait for this game to be re-released.


Ain't that the truth!

If you're the sort with a lot of disposal income, then this discussion really doesn't apply to you, but if you're out there carefully considering your entertainment to dollar ratio, there's just no way this or any other game is worth so much money.
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