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Subject: Guys asking Girls Out or "Dating and Gaming" rss

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Eric Schiedler
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In another thread on RSP, someone asked if women were put down a lot in gaming circles, that lead to talking about weirdos, that lead to talking about guys that don't see when girls flirt with them, and then that led to date rape.

It kinda comes down to this .... Guys asking Girls out ... correctly.

Most guys, even guys who go down to the downtown clubs with me, end up making what I call "The One-Move Mistake."

A lot of guys think,

"Man, wouldn't it be great to ask a girl out? Oh, I don't know which girl I should ask, although I do like that girl over there. It only makes sense that I should ask one girl, the one girl that is most likely to be compatible. The girl will appreciate that, since we will know something about each other to be compatible. Great. I'll wait carefully and ask one girl."

There's a problem with this, but bear with me before I explain it.

A good friend of mine, let's call him C. (for his privacy), is single, tall, fit, model-like handsome, can ski at 70 mph, is a complete gentlemen with women, is very socially charismatic and doesn't sleep with just any girl that throws herself at him. Those of you ladies who are now swooning over this very eligible bachelor, sorry, I won't give out his e-mail.

But our white knight C suffers from "The One-Move Mistake". I have been in Vegas when I winged for him as he talked to a gorgeous blonde girl. I was there when he was prospecting another gorgeous asian girl in the hottest nightclub. What happened? He didn't connect. He waits and waits and waits to make a very gentlemanly move to only the most eligible bachelorette. I must credit another friend of mine who said, "C plays to lose."

My heart goes out to my friend C.

See, it's not only dorky guys who don't make enough moves.

The point of going on a lot of dates is not to sleep with a lot of girls. The point is to see what goes wrong in patterns. If you never ask a girl out, then when you get the courage to do so, how do you even know what kind of date YOU want to take the girl on? You don't.

As you get bad reactions from women or just end up with "friend zones" you can make adjustments. When you make changes and make yourself a BETTER MAN and then start getting good reactions from women, you can then ask out the girl of your dreams. It's not guaranteed to work even then, damn I know life is tough it is annoying, but that is acceptable as it is your best chance to be happy.

You become the BEST YOU anyway ... which is cool all by itself. I've used this system and method myself. Damn if it wasn't always pretty. Damn if there weren't some epic fails along the way. But it's cool to end up in a mind state where you really like yourself.

For crying out loud my posts are long; I am quite the chatterbox.

HERE'S THE GEMSTONE FOR ALL WHO FOLLOWED MY TWISTING TRAIL:
If a guy does not want to bother to improve himself or "self-help" himself, then why bother asking a bunch of women out? Why bother with rejection? Why bother trying to learn the lessons from the mistakes? Why not just wait for the right time to make "The One-Move"? Why, indeed.
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Dan Schaeffer
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If I understand this correctly, you view dating as kind of a game - maybe an RPG - in which the goal is for the man to find and capture the elusive Perfect Girl. As he tries (and fails) with Other Girls, he gains experience points, which he spends on self-improvement, raising his skill levels in Smooth Talking, Looking Good, or whatever.

The one thing I notice that seems to be missing from your discourse is the women. Except as targets of the man's attempts, they seem to have no presence in the story. They're wandering monsters, or at best, NPC's. I don't see Thinking About Women As Something Other Than Dating Fodder on the skill list.

(Also, "prospecting another gorgeous Asian girl"? "Prospecting," really??
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Andrew Goenner
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Golux13 wrote:
If I understand this correctly, you view dating as kind of a game - maybe an RPG - in which the goal is for the man to find and capture the elusive Perfect Girl. As he tries (and fails) with Other Girls, he gains experience points, which he spends on self-improvement, raising his skill levels in Smooth Talking, Looking Good, or whatever.

The one thing I notice that seems to be missing from your discourse is the women. Except as targets of the man's attempts, they seem to have no presence in the story. They're wandering monsters, or at best, NPC's. I don't see Thinking About Women As Something Other Than Dating Fodder on the skill list.

(Also, "prospecting another gorgeous Asian girl"? "Prospecting," really??


Yeah, dunno if I'd enjoy that game. Sounds like too much grinding involved.
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Lynette
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Golux13 wrote:
If I understand this correctly, you view dating as kind of a game - maybe an RPG - in which the goal is for the man to find and capture the elusive Perfect Girl. As he tries (and fails) with Other Girls, he gains experience points, which he spends on self-improvement, raising his skill levels in Smooth Talking, Looking Good, or whatever.

The one thing I notice that seems to be missing from your discourse is the women. Except as targets of the man's attempts, they seem to have no presence in the story. They're wandering monsters, or at best, NPC's. I don't see Thinking About Women As Something Other Than Dating Fodder on the skill list.

(Also, "prospecting another gorgeous Asian girl"? "Prospecting," really??



I was looking for a way to say this but you said it better.


Of course I will be the first to point out that a good sized subset of women view "Dating" as a complex "Game" as well.

So men are not the only ones who objectify others as game pieces or goals in a complex social dance.

However I don't think anybody who consistently views life and relationships this way grow into healthy adults. Male or Female.

It is once you learn to socially interact as an individual WITH other individuals that real growth begins.
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Mac Mcleod
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I agree.
I've friends who are solo at 40 due to this.
There is a very narrow slice they will accept.

I've always been more a series of "hey how about it?" and move on.
In fact, the two times I crushed hard on a girl too early, it didn't work out and then I felt bad.

So I'd lose girlfriend, mourn a while, then make friends with women until one was attracted to me and we'd go from there. The rest would just remain friends. I wasn't their type. Once I've known a woman too long, I've never had it go anywhere.
 
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Eric Schiedler
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Golux13 wrote:
If I understand this correctly, you view dating as kind of a game - maybe an RPG - in which the goal is for the man to find and capture the elusive Perfect Girl.


The RPG is a simulacrum. Real life is more complex.

People in real life learn by trial, error, and correction.

People in real life pursue goals and outcomes with un-guaranteed and un-stable results.

There is no princess, or trophy, only maybe, maybe a lovely person who you love to spend time with.

Golux13 wrote:
As he tries (and fails) with Other Girls, he gains experience points, which he spends on self-improvement, raising his skill levels in Smooth Talking, Looking Good, or whatever.


And yet women complained for multiple pages on the other thread about rapist guys and creepy guys and in other books and areas about how there just aren't any good guys left or that no good guys try to ask them out.

Golux13 wrote:
The one thing I notice that seems to be missing from your discourse is the women.


No guy, in my opinion, should ask a woman out on a serious date unless he thinks there's a real chance of falling in genuine love with her.

See "Stumbling Upon Happiness" by D. Gilbert about the science of looking for happiness.
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Eric Schiedler
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maxo-texas wrote:
I agree.
I've friends who are solo at 40 due to this.
There is a very narrow slice they will accept.

I've always been more a series of "hey how about it?" and move on.
In fact, the two times I crushed hard on a girl too early, it didn't work out and then I felt bad.

So I'd lose girlfriend, mourn a while, then make friends with women until one was attracted to me and we'd go from there. The rest would just remain friends. I wasn't their type. Once I've known a woman too long, I've never had it go anywhere.


There is no requirement to try to ask girls out. No guy has to do this ever or at any required rate.

My entire OP could have been summarized as "try trial and error" as a method to ask a girl out.

I included the story of the very eligible C. because I thought it would illustrate a point about several eligible guys I know and dating in general, nothing more. Of course my OP was intense, this is the internet without mood filters.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Quote:
The point of going on a lot of dates is not to sleep with a lot of girls.



Damn, you mean I've been playing it wrong for the past 23 years.
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Eric Schiedler
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scribidinus wrote:
Quote:
The point of going on a lot of dates is not to sleep with a lot of girls.



Damn, you mean I've been playing it wrong for the past 23 years.


Hah Hah - I hadn't read the line that way. Excellent catch - too funny!!

Thumbs up!
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Meerkat wrote:

It is once you learn to socially interact as an individual WITH other individuals that real growth begins.


Is that not ultimately exactly what the OP is suggesting? shake
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Joe Salamone
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I always had much more luck just meeting women and then "hanging around" with them in a casual sort of way rather than making a point of "asking them out." Here's an example: about 25 years ago I was out drinking with a friend one night and we went to a breakfast joint after the bars closed. The waitress seated us at a table beside two young ladies. After looking at the menu for a few minutes, I said to my buddy, "Ya know . . . I don't really feel like eating breakfast food. I'm in the mood for Chinese food." One of the young ladies at the next table said, "Yeah, me too!" So I said, "Let's go." They followed us to a nearby Chinese restaurant and we hung around there for awhile. We finished eating and went out to the parking lot and I asked one of the girls for her phone number so we could "do something like this again." So, there was no real targeting or anything. We just sort of met and had a few laughs and everything naturally worked out. Similar things happened to me before and after that night where I just sort of naturally, casually (almost by accident) met someone and we just sort of hung around together for the rest of the night and maybe went out several times afterward without me really doing a formal "ask out." I guess if there's no real expectation, there's no real chance of rejection.
 
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Tara Roy
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Any "date mining" done in a) a bar, b) for "girls" (vs "women), and most importantly c) with a wing man is poor planning in the first place.

The problem here is that your guy wants a match of substance. He's looking in the wrong places - and with the wrong people. Oh, and *at* the wrong people if he narrows down his choices to only the "most gorgeous".

I encourage him to quit looking to hook up in bars; he should be looking on the ski slopes or during some other mature-adult-of-some-depth type of environment. Or - better yet - quit hunting altogether. The best relationships happen when we're open to them, not when we try to open them up to ourselves.
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Tara Roy
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verandi wrote:
[q="Meerkat"]
It is once you learn to socially interact as an individual WITH other individuals that real growth begins.


Is that not ultimately exactly what the OP is suggesting? shake[/]

No. I read the original OP and "quality over quantity". Panning for gold, if you will.
 
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CHAPEL
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No one picks up women in a bar nowadays. It's all done electronically through Match.com.
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Girls aren't prey nor are they trophies, they aren't there to be captured, caught, tamed, or "won." They are people. This is not some zero-sum exchange where you are victorious if the girl goes on the date with you or sleeps with you, this is an interaction with another human being. If, indeed, it is a game, it is a cooperative game with you and the girl on the same side. With benefits.

I suspect that until some guys understand this, they will remain single.
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eschiedler wrote:
..... can ski at 70 mph, .....
is that really a bonus in some US social scenes?
 
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BlueMountain wrote:
eschiedler wrote:
..... can ski at 70 mph, .....
is that really a bonus in some US social scenes?


It is if you're trying to beat the clock on an approaching blizzard so that can you cure a 6 yr old dying girl...
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I've been known to refer to such things as "a semi-cooperative game".
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Mac Mcleod
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BlueMountain wrote:
eschiedler wrote:
..... can ski at 70 mph, .....
is that really a bonus in some US social scenes?


One of my life memories (and I forget a lot) is of Lake Tahoe.

There is this one run that is super narrow, flanked by 8' thick trees taht are very menacing and icy. A heavily moguled run enters it from the right.

As I was picking my way down the icy run this guy in his late 20's? come flying down the run- skimming the TOPS of the frikkin moguls (just touching the top of each one lightly- not even going between them fast like a "great skier" might do) and hits the trail we are on at about 35 mph and zooms out of sight in a spray of snow.

That was spectacular. I'm sure among the local skiing crowd that was a bonus in the social scene. The ski instructors are mostly young foreign students and seem to just ski and party mostly.
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maxo-texas wrote:
BlueMountain wrote:
eschiedler wrote:
..... can ski at 70 mph, .....
is that really a bonus in some US social scenes?


One of my life memories (and I forget a lot) is of Lake Tahoe.

There is this one run that is super narrow, flanked by 8' thick trees taht are very menacing and icy. A heavily moguled run enters it from the right.

As I was picking my way down the icy run this guy in his late 20's? come flying down the run- skimming the TOPS of the frikkin moguls (just touching the top of each one lightly- not even going between them fast like a "great skier" might do) and hits the trail we are on at about 35 mph and zooms out of sight in a spray of snow.

That was spectacular. I'm sure among the local skiing crowd that was a bonus in the social scene. The ski instructors are mostly young foreign students and seem to just ski and party mostly.
I grew up at a surf beach in Australia.. all up and down the coast were top class surfing beaches. The great surfers got some great babes. Probably similar to great skiers in skiing regions of the US.
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The problem is the attitude that you need a girlfriend and are essentially shopping for one.

When you hand a 5 year old $10 and set them loose in a toy store 5 minutes before closing, they will often buy the shiniest stuopid thing they see.

Not wait for what they really want.

Fun for a few moments, the joy is gone.

Because it didn't happen that they found a toy that they wanted and then worked towards getting it. They instead felt the imperative to get SOMETHING to satisfy an immediate need.

Looking for a girlfriend is why there's so many divorces.

Finding a girl you want to be your girlfriend is why so many marriages last.
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MWChapel wrote:
No one picks up women in a bar nowadays. It's all done electronically through Match.com.


Bloke I know has been on over 200 dates via websites. He reamins single to this day, and he's a nice guy.

Wossupwithdat?
 
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Eric Schiedler
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AdrianPHague wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
No one picks up women in a bar nowadays. It's all done electronically through Match.com.


Bloke I know has been on over 200 dates via websites. He reamins single to this day, and he's a nice guy.

Wossupwithdat?




If a woman goes to the trouble to sign up on a website, then she will show up for dates. Women who are single for 6 months or more say things like "The wrong guys seem to ask me out" or "No guys ask me out." So they hope the online date fixes that problem. Same kinda thing goes for guys too.

Your friend is nice but maybe something is tripping him up, could be anything small really.

But one time I had a girl stalk me after she met me at a wedding. She had a mustache. Her friends said, "yeah, that girl hasn't dated anyone for the 5 or 6 years that we've known her. She's nice but she's weird." But they were too nice to tell her that she had a mustache.

Next time your friend goes on a date, show up in a separate car and sit next to him at a coffee shop. See if she creeps out at anything. Fixing one small thing could really help him. And of course act like you've never met him before... you're just trying to help him, not freak the girl out.
 
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