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A Few Acres of Snow» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about ambush rss

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William Springer
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When you get ambushed, you lose a card from your hand or reserve, or show your hand if you have no ambushable cards in hand.

What happens if you have an ambushable card in your reserve, but not in hand?
 
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Robert Forrest
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I believe your reserve basically counts as your hand in that instance - ie, you return the ambushable card, but don't show your hand.
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Flannel Golem
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Then you choose an ambushable card from your reserve to return to your Empire deck.

You only reveal the contents of your hand if you have no ambushable cards in either your reserve or your hand. Your obligation to the Ambush action ends the moment you choose and discard a valid card.
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Ove Ahlman
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The thing is that the standard response to the ambush is to throw away a card, so If you can do that (from either the reserve or hand) then everybody is happy and no revealing of hands are necessary. But If you claim that you can't throw away any card, then you ofcourse have to prove it to your opponent so he knows you are not lying.
 
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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I think the misunderstanding here is, that not the player who plays the ambush chooses, which card is discarded, but the ambushed player chooses!
So, if he discards a card from his reserve, he could or could not have another card in his hand.
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G. Gambill
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Almecho wrote:
I think the misunderstanding here is, that not the player who plays the ambush chooses, which card is discarded, but the ambushed player chooses!
So, if he discards a card from his reserve, he could or could not have another card in his hand.


This is my understanding as well. I also think that the reveal hand rule is in there for another reason than mistrust. I also think it feel thematic that if the ambush team sets out but does not find anyone to ambush, they may be able to gather some intelligence about the enemy on the way back home to report. I find it's often very valuable to get that peek into my opponents hand when an ambush fails ("Looks like Port Royal may be getting feisty!") Just my opinion of course...
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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ggambill wrote:
I also think that the reveal hand rule is in there for another reason than mistrust. I also think it feel thematic that if the ambush team sets out but does not find anyone to ambush, they may be able to gather some intelligence about the enemy on the way back home to report. I find it's often very valuable to get that peek into my opponents hand when an ambush fails ("Looks like Port Royal may be getting feisty!") Just my opinion of course...


I think it serves both purposes:
- to make sure your opponent has REALLY no ambushable card in his hand
- to represent the intelligence gathering you are describing

It certainly feels good, that it isn't just an action of mistrust, but has also a themtically reason. I like it, when a rule makes sense.
 
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William Springer
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Cool....thought it was going to be that, but the way the rules are worded it kinda sounds like you can choose not to discard anything if you have no ambushable cards in hand. Always best to be sure..
 
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Agung Waspodo
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agree with Almecho, I really love this specific rule.. it makes sense and probably historically correct.. arrrh
 
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Stefan Scheuermann
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Was this topic quested to Martin Wallace at any time?

In the german version the translator did some "clarification work" which leads to:

in english it means:

If the ambush is not blocked then the opposing player
must select one card that has the ‘ambush symbol
(as shown here) from either his hand or his reserve to
place back on his empire deck. If the player does not have
such a card in his hand then he must prove this to you by
showing you his hand. He would then not lose a card.

For the german "translator" it was not totally clear what the last sentence means and he replaced the Sentence

"He would then not lose a card."

with

"He would not lose a card in this case, not even from his reserve."

which means basically in the german version the reserve pile is "secure" from ambush as long as no ambushable cards in HAND.

The player CAN choose his casuality from his reserve instead of hand if he needs to do BUT he only needs to do in any way when he have a ambushable card IN HAND.

For me the english text is still not clear at all - this is the reason it was "clarified" by the translator.

So an answer from Martin to this would be fine English Rule is open for interpretation. German Rule is concrete but may be wrong.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Calmon70 wrote:
For me the english text is still not clear at all - this is the reason it was "clarified" by the translator.


Translators shouldn't be in the clarification business in that way. (I don't know if that's what happened.)

The English rule says

"If the ambush is not blocked then the opposing player must select one card that has the ‘ambush symbol (as shown here) from either his hand or his reserve to place back on his empire deck. If the player does not have such a card in his hand then he must prove this to you by showing you his hand. He would then not lose a card."

I agree that the second sentence could be better. But the idea that you don't lose a card in reserve because you don't have an ambush able card in hand is contrary to any sensible reading of the first sentence.
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Bruce Murphy
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Except for the proving you are immune part. How does showing your hand demonstrate a lack of cards in your reserve?

B>
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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thepackrat wrote:
Except for the proving you are immune part. How does showing your hand demonstrate a lack of cards in your reserve?


I'm not sure which suggestion you are arguing against. Your reserve is open for your opponent to view, so you only need to show your hand.
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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Any news on this?

The last sentence is still not clear. Atm it still reads, as if your reserve is immune, when you don't have cards with the "Ambushable" symbol in your hand...
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Almecho wrote:
Any news on this?

The last sentence is still not clear. Atm it still reads, as if your reserve is immune, when you don't have cards with the "Ambushable" symbol in your hand...


If referring to the English text then I disagree with your characterization of it.
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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I know.

I just like a clarification from Wallace - but that has time until after the holidays...
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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You know what the rule means, but you are playing playing rulebook lawyer (*) because you can read it in a certain way?

If so, I think (but this is just personal opinion) that Martin has better things to do with his time.

If on the other hand you have an issue with the German rules not matching the English rules that's another matter.

(*) Note my microbadges.
 
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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Yes, I do - because I always think, that it improves a game in the second print run, when all unclear passages are clarified in the rulebook. And there are enough people out there, who only accept an answer, when it comes from the designer of the game...
 
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Stefan K.
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Dearlove wrote:
You know what the rule means, but you are playing playing rulebook lawyer (*) because you can read it in a certain way?

If so, I think (but this is just personal opinion) that Martin has better things to do with his time.

If on the other hand you have an issue with the German rules not matching the English rules that's another matter.

(*) Note my microbadges.

Since at least the german rules are "different" and the english rules are somehow "questionable", could you please clarify this in your FAQs please ?

Thank you,
Stefan
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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stanfink wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
You know what the rule means, but you are playing playing rulebook lawyer (*) because you can read it in a certain way?

If so, I think (but this is just personal opinion) that Martin has better things to do with his time.

If on the other hand you have an issue with the German rules not matching the English rules that's another matter.

(*) Note my microbadges.

Since at least the german rules are "different" and the english rules are somehow "questionable", could you please clarify this in your FAQs please ?

Thank you,
Stefan


I'm not planning to do anything about foreign languages in the FAQ list, for reasons of time and expertise (or lack of). Of course someone else is more than welcome to start a separate list. The English I believe does not actually need an explanation, as I noted the previous sentence can't be sensibly read any other way. And right now I have more pressing concerns on my time, both for the FAQ list (rule changes) and otherwise.

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Stefan K.
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Dearlove wrote:
I'm not planning to do anything about foreign languages in the FAQ list, for reasons of time and expertise (or lack of). Of course someone else is more than welcome to start a separate list.
That wasn't my intention.

Dearlove wrote:
The English I believe does not actually need an explanation, as I noted the previous sentence can't be sensibly read any other way.
The OP and the german translator obviously have a different understanding

Dearlove wrote:
And right now I have more pressing concerns on my time, both for the FAQ list (rule changes) and otherwise.
Sorry, I thought when there is a new FAQ, then 10 minutes more "copy & paste" wouldn't be that much work.
 
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