Jim Miller
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Ok, just finished our first fight (I lost in 5 rounds) but two things happened that I'm wondering about:

1) Can you play a left punch and a right punch at the same time? My opponent, in other words, was throwing two punches simultaneously. He was picking up two cards at a time (one in each hand) and laying them down simultaneously (on two separate piles) as fast as he could.

In his understanding of the rules, his strategy was to lay all his cards as fast as possible and pick up the "Ding" card (where I was only about halfway through my cards - moving much slower trying to seek out bonus points and staggers).But I'm thinking he has to lay one, then the other??

I was able to chip away at his health but never quite able to get him in danger.

2) How do you counter this strategy? My opponent decided to lay his "punch cards" only on two body areas rather than all three. This makes sense, I then realized, because now he was able to divide his "punch points" in half (roughly) rather than in thirds (roughly).

Granted, for our very first fight, we DID NOT use blocking just so we could both get a feel for the other rules first. I'm thinking that next time we fight, when we do incorporate blocking, I could counter his "two-pile-rather-than-three-pile" approach with a fair number of blocks. But maybe not??

Also, we did play one rule incorrectly: We allowed the clinch card to be picked up in two different rounds before the fighter was "in danger." But we now have that rule straight.

It was wild and crazy for first time out of the chute, but obviously very amateurish. I can see it being a much crisper fight after we get a few more under our belts...

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Samuel Hinz
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Re: Just stepped out of the ring after our first fight - two rules questions
Two punches at the same time is a perfectly legal move. IMO.


laying down some blocks while attempting to pick up a combo or two, defeats this tactic quite well.

combos are worth much more points than punches, and if by splitting his piles into half, just increases the chance that each block you do will be negative 2 points to his score.

 
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Deckard Cole
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Re: Just stepped out of the ring after our first fight - two rules questions
The only rule I can find that even closely addresses this is on page 5 of the rulebook. "How to punch"

I states:
1: Take the top card from EITHER your left OR right punch deck.
2: Place the punch card on your opponent's head or body card.

Reading that I'd say you can only play one at a time due to the use of the words EITHER and OR in line one, not BOTH. Also siting common sense, who punches with both hands at once outside of cartoons?

The only counter to this would be further down the same page under NOTE:
You may only have ONE punch card in EACH hand at any given time. (rather than EITHER.)
Still I'd say one punch at a time. It just makes more sense as it is meant to replicate actual boxing. You can have a punch ready to go in each hand but you'd only throw one at a time.
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Gavan Brown
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Re: Just stepped out of the ring after our first fight - two rules questions
Quote:
1) Can you play a left punch and a right punch at the same time? My opponent, in other words, was throwing two punches simultaneously. He was picking up two cards at a time (one in each hand) and laying them down simultaneously (on two separate piles) as fast as he could.


Playing 2 cards simultaneously has been a debated topic. Obviously it is not thematic, and does promote "spamming" as your opponent did. While spamming has been quite easily counter-able, for new players I can easily see how it could be a challenge. The rule book does insinuate, though not directly state, that you can only play one punch card at a time, however you are allowed to hold 2 punch cards simultaneously.

I'm going to make a ruling on this right now: You ARE allowed to hold two punch cards simultaneously, but you are only allowed to have one ONE of your arms (holding a punch card) extended outside your boxer's area at any given time. Your boxer's area ends at the front of your boxer's body cards. Playing two punch cards to your opponent simultaneously is prohibited.

I have created a diagram to better illustrate this rule.


Punch Arm Extension: Legal



Punch Arm Extension: Illegal

Quote:
2) How do you counter this strategy? My opponent decided to lay his "punch cards" only on two body areas rather than all three. This makes sense, I then realized, because now he was able to divide his "punch points" in half (roughly) rather than in thirds (roughly).


We have the world's fastest spammer in our development group, so we've done some stress testing and balancing, to ensure spamming is not a valid strategy. The above rule will go even further to render it invalid.

To counter spamming: play some punch cards until you play one to match the color of the counter punch, take note and try to counter-punch when possible. Immediately focus blocks on one (and only one) of the 2 spammed punch piles. Because your opponent is playing so many cards to two piles, it will be easy to constantly block, also remember haymakers can be blocked by any card. Once you get 4 blocks down, focus on getting some punch cards out to build a combo.

In summary, focusing blocks on a single punch pile is a direct counter to spamming. Spamming increases your average punch points, but it also greatly amplifies the negative effect of your opponent focusing his blocks. In our testing, focused blocking + 1 Combo + a few punch cards + the ding card will invariably counter a spammer.

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Jim Miller
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Re: Just stepped out of the ring after our first fight - two rules questions
Fantastic! This makes complete sense. Thanks for the clarification and ruling. I think we all appreciate the immediate feedback and response. It's an exciting game and I'm looking forward to getting all fighters in my group into true gaming form as it relates to JAB.
 
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Jason John
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Hold on one sec. . .the "quick stagger" tactic of playing a Haymaker-matching color card at almost the same time would violate this rule. Sure, it's possible to play card 1, remove hand, then play card 2, but this allows a window of opportunity to block. Would this be allowed?

Also, a simple way of countering the 2 pile strategy is to simply focus on blocking 1 pile. You pick the pile you don't block, and your opponent either picks the empty pile (which is good for you) or the pile which you blocked.
 
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Samuel Hinz
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Such a punching limitation would make staggers alot less viable.

Technically I'd call it more of a quick 1 2. It would still be quick enough to violate this rule.

True story : the other night I attempted to haymaker and stagger from different hands in quick succession. My brother managed to miraculously time his punch in between the haymaker and stagger as I put them down.


I'm not even sure punching with 2 hands at the same time would be effective. And if it's not effective then let a wannabe boxer punch with 2 hands if he wants to look like a goose.

 
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Jim Miller
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Yes, I now have the 2-stack strategy by an opponent under control...it's no longer a threat. Thanks.

Regarding your "quick stagger" tactic point, I still belive the clarification about having only one arm extended makes sense. Thematically it makes sense to allow the your opponent even that small fraction to try to block...but I'm thinking if you have a Haymaker and matching color card in your hands, we're talking 2/10ths of the second to pull it off, even using the new rule clarification posted above.

Thanks for everyone's feedback on this.
 
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Louis Brenton
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I think Gavan made the right ruling. I haven't gotten to play Jab yet (although I hope to soon), but I'm pretty sure that in real boxing it's not legal to throw 2 punches simultaneously. Also, I'm certain that it wouldn't be particularly effective in real boxing.

I'd imagine that "simultaneous" is in the eyes of the referee in real life, but I think Gavan's ruling makes thematic sense in the context of the game.
 
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Gavan Brown
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JJAPS2 wrote:
Hold on one sec. . .the "quick stagger" tactic of playing a Haymaker-matching color card at almost the same time would violate this rule. Sure, it's possible to play card 1, remove hand, then play card 2, but this allows a window of opportunity to block. Would this be allowed?

Also, a simple way of countering the 2 pile strategy is to simply focus on blocking 1 pile. You pick the pile you don't block, and your opponent either picks the empty pile (which is good for you) or the pile which you blocked.


Jason,

This is true, it will have an effect on the "1 2 punch" technique, but it will be slight. As stated, one hand holding a card may be extended at once. This means that you will be able to extend your other arm, as soon as you let go of the haymaker card. There should always be an opportunity to block a stagger, even if the window is small. This rule will ensure that. I apologize if this ruling has a negative effect on your play style, but I believe it will have an overall positive effect for new players to combat spammers, and of course it makes more thematic sense. I promise you this was not been an easy decision... but I believe it is the correct course of action.

Thanks for everyone's support!
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Gavan Brown
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I've also updated the "Can you make a haymaker unblockable?" thread to reflect this.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/7104443#7104443
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