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Subject: Gamewire Photos and Bad users rss

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Frank Branham
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That Canadian guy posted a complaint in his blog about BGG users reposting photos from his previews on the Geek (presumably for Geekgold.)

http://www.gamefest.com/news/blog_detail/2676_0_12_0_C/

While the uploads section does expressly require folks to have permission to upload files, perhaps some teeth need to go into effect....

Like a policy to strip all Geekgold from someone who uploads a forbidden picture?

Guidelines for reposting pictures are not really that tricky. If it comes from a game manufacturer's website, they usually want the info posted to every place on the planet. Game retailers sometimes take their own pictures, and they get upset (see above link) if you post them elsewhere because they want people driven to their website. Moo,

Moo,
Frank
 
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Robert Wesley
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shake gee...'join the CLUB' you ''Late Nate''! now, just 'where' would anyone FIND that 'permission' had been 'granted' for 'anything' hmmmmm? SPEAK UP! I didn't 'hear' YOU! oh that's RIGHT, there is 'none' as of yet! I've 'inquired' about THIS many times and yet, what's the 'hold up' for them? THEN the 'likes' of YOU can 'S.T.F.U.' about this 'stuff'!
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Greg Aleknevicus
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I agree with Frank that some sort of penalty is a good idea. I generally don't mind if pictures of mine are uploaded to the 'Geek, but I am bothered by the fact that credit (copyright, not Geekgold) is given to the uploader. This makes it appear that the picture belongs to the uploader. This is even more bothersome due to the creative commons licence on the 'Geek which gives approval to anybody to use content available here.
 
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Jorge Montero
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It's not just pictures: For example, deitass and I made the official translation to Spanish of Bonaparte at Marengo for the publisher. A copy of this translation was posted on the geek by some random guy in Spain. The translation is available in the publisher's website, so I don't see how the gaming community gains much from it being posted on the geek.

Is geekgold so important that we should let people do this kind of thing on the website? I really don't have a problem with the translation being on the geek, and I'm pretty sure deitass doesn't have a problem either, but the fact that someone decides to 'profit' for something that adds no value makes me mad.
 
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Robert Wesley
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so...FREE and frequently accessed 'advertisement' isn't ENOUGH?!? If I 'recall' then you CAN 'post' LINKS directly 'to' your own SITES under the 'games' themselves! Then they can quickly BE at your 'sites' from those eh? too simple? hey, I'm just trying to 'cater' to whomever...
surprise
 
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Robert Martin
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fbranham wrote:
Like a policy to strip all Geekgold from someone who uploads a forbidden picture?


I think a policy to strip all humanity from someone would be much more effective.
 
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Scott Alden
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How bout a good ole flogging for those that upload other people's stuff?

I can change the ownership of anything on the site, so if people see their stuff being ripped off I can attribute it to them or just plain delete it if they want me to.
 
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Scott Alden
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greg wrote:
I agree with Frank that some sort of penalty is a good idea. I generally don't mind if pictures of mine are uploaded to the 'Geek, but I am bothered by the fact that credit (copyright, not Geekgold) is given to the uploader. This makes it appear that the picture belongs to the uploader. This is even more bothersome due to the creative commons licence on the 'Geek which gives approval to anybody to use content available here.


Do you have a suggestion on how to better handle this?
 
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Scott Alden
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hibikir wrote:
It's not just pictures: For example, deitass and I made the official translation to Spanish of Bonaparte at Marengo for the publisher. A copy of this translation was posted on the geek by some random guy in Spain. The translation is available in the publisher's website, so I don't see how the gaming community gains much from it being posted on the geek.

Is geekgold so important that we should let people do this kind of thing on the website? I really don't have a problem with the translation being on the geek, and I'm pretty sure deitass doesn't have a problem either, but the fact that someone decides to 'profit' for something that adds no value makes me mad.


Yes, this is annoying, I will fix this so you get credit for the file.
 
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Vincent
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I have done this, but only with new games that are not yet released. People want to see pictures of games that are being developed. If someone finds one on the developer's website, what's wrong with posting it? Why would they mind the publicity?
 
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Scott Alden
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Developer website is one thing, but a store is another.
 
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Make it like a speeding ticket. Take what they got from the pic, and 2 GG for a "fine".
 
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Robert Wesley
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then perhaps a 'monetary' $$$ remittance is in order, hmmmmm?
IF 'this' is to become just another 'site' intent on making its 'owners' 'RICH', then what's WRONG with that? In which case, then maybe they SHOULD be 'passing out the royalty checks' such as OTHERS 'have' to, like 'Radio' stations, & 'T V' stations, & etc.
don't THAT just 'sound' like lots of FUN! for everyone?
surprise
 
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Daniel Karp
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hibikir wrote:
The translation is available in the publisher's website, so I don't see how the gaming community gains much from it being posted on the geek.


These are two separate issues. You absolutely should get credit, and your translation should not be posted here unless you want it to be. However, I believe that the gaming community does gain something from having all translations centralized here on BGG. I know that if I was buying a game, and wanted to find out if a translation to English existed, I would come here first. And if it wasn't here, I might well assume that there was no translation, and not buy the game. There isa value to having everything where it is easy to find.
 
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Geoff Speare
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It seems to me that KNOWINGLY submitting any sort of file that you don't have rights to is a serious offense and should be treated accordingly. If someone uploads one bad file, zap a few GG, warn the wrongdoer, re-attribute the item, done. If someone uploads a hundred, or even worse, uploads multiple times despite warnings, then they could well deserve removal of all GG or even bannination.

 
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Robert Wesley
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RayMulford wrote:
GROGnads wrote:
so...FREE and frequently accessed 'advertisement' isn't ENOUGH?!? If I 'recall' then you CAN 'post' LINKS directly 'to' your own SITES under the 'games' themselves! Then they can quickly BE at your 'sites' from those eh? too simple? hey, I'm just trying to 'cater' to whomever...
surprise




oh, okay 'Ray', so NOW we 'understand' at WHAT 'level' that YOU 'operate' under! thanks for the 'update'! to 'quote' the late, great 'Dean Wormer':
'' FAT, drunk, and stupid, is NO 'way' to go through LIFE, son!!''
don't BE that 'way' Ray! cut 'down' on one or two or ALL '3' then
[/b]
 
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Rachel Simmons
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Quote:
However, I believe that the gaming community does gain something from having all translations centralized here on BGG.


A link to the file on the publisher's website would work better; there are versioning problems with posting the actual files to BGG.
 
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Rami S
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Maybe we should have a more complete form to fill up when uploading a picture or a file.

Having a couple of fields added, ex:

1Are you the author of the article?
2The name of the author of the article:
3Are you the one who took the picture/snapshoot?
4The name of the author/web site of the picture:

This way if the uploader does not know the identity of the author it will remain blank and he won't be "credited" for creating the file/taking the picture, but he, the uploader will still be known, and will get 1 shinny.

I can only speak for myself but when I don't see a picture of a game, my interest for it fades faster, unless I'm a sucker of that theme or designer, or if I can't find some translation/rules my frustration grow bigger angry; This is specially for the obscure or old games. Believe me it takes really lots of time trying to find some old stuff*

Now because a publisher website exist as long as the company exist, we can not rely on it(see my *).Even if BGG will disappear at some point in the dark future, because it is a community someone else will continue their work, the same as they did with the Game Cabinet - IIRC - so the file will not go to waste. And as dakarp mentioned the reference site for boardgaming is BGG not a publisher.

Btw why not reduce the amount of gold required for an avatar/badges/ubberbadge (creating an inflation? - IANAE) this way geeks who only contribute for that reason (may it be pictures/files/reviews/session reports/etc.) won't pollute the DB that much.

* I just acquired Europa Universalis & Xhenor, damn me if I can find an ecopy of the french rules for Europa Universalis or anything, but absolutely anything regarding Xhenor, nothing, zip, nada, rien.... I lost all hope

this is my on the subject.goo
 
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Robert Wesley
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shake sorry, but I 'have' MY standards...laugh
 
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Greg Aleknevicus
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Quote:
Do you have a suggestion on how to better handle this?


Not really, no. The only thing I could suggest is to try to be a little more responsive to notices from copyright holders. There were a few items of mine (two pictures and a player aid for Drakon) that someone else had uploaded. Twice I wrote to you asking that the pictures be credited to me and the player aid removed. (I prefer to keep the player aids on my own site in the event that I make changes to them.) I did not receive a reply either time. I accept that both may have been lost in the avalanche of e-mails you receive, but it wasn't so important to me that I was going to send a third e-mail.

Recently, in another thread, the same issue came up and I made the same complaints. Moderators responded that they would remove the pictures (they did) although the player aid is still available*. As I've already said, it's not that big an issue to me and so it hasn't bothered me all that much. It sounds as though it bothers Rick Thornquist quite a bit more and so I can understand his anger if he had received the same response to complaints that I did.

Perhaps designating one of the moderators as a "point man" on this issue would be a good idea?


*A note regarding the Drakon player aid: I created it but since I used graphics and text directly from the game, I did not feel comfortable releasing it to the public. I contacted Fantasy Flight Games and explained the situation. They responded that it was fine with them so long as a copyright notice was included, so I added one at the bottom of the graphic. I believe that they also had a copy of the file on their website for a time. (I could not find it when I looked just now.) it's possible that the person who uploaded this player aid got it from Fantasy Flight directly.
 
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Robert Zurfluh
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These are the 4 images I "stole" from gamefest's site. But I wrote in the comment under the picture where I got them from.

And the reason why I posted them was...well otherwise we wouldn't see pictures like that on the geek for a long time.....I uploaded them, so other geeks can see them, and the new stuff could be discussed on the geek.

Hmmmmm.

Maybe if you download a picture from a different site, you should say where it came from, and you shouldn't receive GG for it.
 
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Greg Aleknevicus
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Maybe if you download a picture from a different site, you should say where it came from, and you shouldn't receive GG for it.


Or maybe you should ask the owner of the picture if it's alright to upload it to the 'Geek?

Or maybe you should just not upload it all since it isn't yours and the 'Geek expressly forbids uploading pictures for which you do not have the rights?

The issue is not whether you or anybody else receives geekgold, the issue is who has the right to upload a picture. One thing is clear, it's not some random browser who happens across a picture somewhere. The fact that a picture may be very useful/appropriate for the 'Geek is beside the point.
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Robert Zurfluh
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FYI:

Copyright violation occurs when you use another person's material for your own personal economic benefit, or when you take away from the economic benefit of the originator. Don't assume that by citing a source you're abiding copyright laws. In most cases, you need to seek and receive written permission from the copyright holder.

Fair use: "Virtually all copyright legislation provides for reasonable, "fair use" of copyrighted material under certain circumstances, for example to allow a book critic to quote extracts from a book he is reviewing. The ability to include extracts from the book can be considered necessary for a book reviewer to do his job; thus "fair use" allows him the right to reproduce passages from the book without needing to obtain permission from the copyright owner or being liable for royalty payments. However, "fair use" allows the use of only small portions of a copyrighted work".



So, does that mean if I would write a review of a game, and I go to the publisher's website, I could download a picture and use it in my review without permission?



 
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Noaceyet wrote:
FYI:

Copyright violation occurs when you use another person's material for your own personal economic benefit, or when you take away from the economic benefit of the originator. Don't assume that by citing a source you're abiding copyright laws. In most cases, you need to seek and receive written permission from the copyright holder.



This issue has nothing to do with copyright, it has to do with breaking the rules of BGG. Those aren't your pictures, you didn't take them, you don't have permission of the person who did, therefore you cannot upload them. There is no loophole in the "law" here. It's a rule, and you broke it, plain and simple.

ninja
 
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yeah? well… y’know, that’s just like, uh… your opinion, man…
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hibikir wrote:
Is geekgold so important that we should let people do this kind of thing on the website?


is geekgold so important that we shouldn't?

relax, dudes.
 
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