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Memoir '44: Tigers in the Snow» Forums » Rules

Subject: Commissar? rss

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Rauli Kettunen
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At least according to the DOW scenario guide, this one is set in 1945. Commissars feature in 1942 and earlier scenarios only IIRC.
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Jim O'Neill (Established 1949)
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Chris,

I think it is taken as read that any time you use a Russian army, you use the Kommissar rule even if they don't particularly specify it.

Oops, Rauli, looks as if we have two different interpretations here.

Let's wait for...

brian
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...who is the "Oracle". I admit that my answer was based on logic and conjecture rather that any reading of a particular rule. The good thing is that if I am wrong, I have got a whole heap of "new" scenarios to play.

Regards,


Jim
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Rauli Kettunen
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I seem to recall seeing mentions that up until Stalingrad Commissars were used, after that they were tossed off and thus post-Stalingrad scenarios don't use the Commissar rule anymore.
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Bart de Groot
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Special Rules are only in effect when they are mentioned for the scenario. Otherwise they would be just Rules, and wouldn't have to be repeated for each scenario.
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brian
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Dam the Man wrote:
At least according to the DOW scenario guide, this one is set in 1945. Commissars feature in 1942 and earlier scenarios only IIRC.

I agree with Dam. If the Commissar is to be used, the scenario set up will say "Russian Command rules are in effect" or something like that.

Kursk (Ponyri and Overlord) and Breakout to Lisyanka are examples of the Russians not having to use the Commissar rules in the Eastern Front expansion.

I would assume year has something to do with it.
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Stig Morten
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The Russians used their double-command system or Political Commisars up to the middle of november 42(During Stalingrad(Tractor Factory fighting)). After that they abandoned the system and trusted their Generals and military staff more.
That is why as they say here 42 and before uses Kommisar and 43 and beyond don't use it.

This was explained to me by Yangtze (creator of the barbarossa campaign in the Campaign Book) The post is buried somewhere here or in the DOW forums.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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In the EF rules... scenarios after 1942 do not use the Commissar rule.

This coincides with the information at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commissar
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Jim O'Neill (Established 1949)
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Gentlefolk,

They say you are never too old to learn and this thread has taught me something.

Now I can go back and play all those scenarios without the Kommissar.

Regards,


Jim
Est. 1949

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Stig Morten
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Maybe the Eastern Fornt rulebook should have had a historical note about the use of the Commissar and when it was abandoned?

Stig Morten
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brian
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ad79 wrote:
Maybe the Eastern Fornt rulebook should have had a historical note about the use of the Commissar and when it was abandoned?

Stig Morten

It does. Though it only talks about the commissar up until 1939, I think. But the rule book is clear which scenarios contain the rule set.
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Stig Morten
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
ad79 wrote:
Maybe the Eastern Fornt rulebook should have had a historical note about the use of the Commissar and when it was abandoned?

Stig Morten

It does. Though it only talks about the commissar up until 1939, I think. But the rule book is clear which scenarios contain the rule set.


True about the rule set containing info, but as people continue to ask about this, maybe the info should include something about why it was abandoned during the Stalingrad fight(Nov. 42).
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brian
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ad79 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
ad79 wrote:
Maybe the Eastern Fornt rulebook should have had a historical note about the use of the Commissar and when it was abandoned?

Stig Morten

It does. Though it only talks about the commissar up until 1939, I think. But the rule book is clear which scenarios contain the rule set.


True about the rule set containing info, but as people continue to ask about this, maybe the info should include something about why it was abandoned during the Stalingrad fight(Nov. 42).

Or it can just deal with the rules of the game and spur you on to investigate it on your own!

I like the simplicity of the rules and the quick 1 or 2 lines they give to history here and there. But I'd rather just have a ruleset have rules and leave me curious to do my own research instead of getting bogged down in unnecessary text when looking for a rule.
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Stig Morten
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
ad79 wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
ad79 wrote:
Maybe the Eastern Fornt rulebook should have had a historical note about the use of the Commissar and when it was abandoned?

Stig Morten

It does. Though it only talks about the commissar up until 1939, I think. But the rule book is clear which scenarios contain the rule set.


True about the rule set containing info, but as people continue to ask about this, maybe the info should include something about why it was abandoned during the Stalingrad fight(Nov. 42).

Or it can just deal with the rules of the game and spur you on to investigate it on your own!

I like the simplicity of the rules and the quick 1 or 2 lines they give to history here and there. But I'd rather just have a ruleset have rules and leave me curious to do my own research instead of getting bogged down in unnecessary text when looking for a rule.


True again, but I would have prefered some background onthe timeframe of this rule. It is an important rule for the Russians and affects how the scenario plays if you use when you shouldn't and vise versa.
 
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brian
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ad79 wrote:
True again, but I would have prefered some background onthe timeframe of this rule. It is an important rule for the Russians and affects how the scenario plays if you use when you shouldn't and vise versa.

Understand. But they don't leave us any guess work. If the rules are in effect, they will be clearly printed in the set-up, just like all the other special set up. If its not there, don't use them.

All the historical context does is allow us a quick double-check to see if they were right. Or give us a point to research if they include it post 42 or don't include it pre 42.
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mark selleck
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I agree there should be a note giving some background on the commissar rule and why it was no longer in effect.

From all my reading, around the time of the end of stalingrad Feb 1943 commissars were demoted and rank insignia was introduced back into the soviet army instilling a scence of pride and lifting moral (also allowing commanders to make decisions in the feild aswell) some say it was Reminisant of the times of the Tsars (although it was never voiced out aloud)

The final resistance in stalingrad ended on the 2nd of feb 1943. So i guess this could be a date that could be used (although it would have taken some time to organise the new system. But for eases of use I would be happy looking at the 2nd of feb 1943 as the end of the commissar rule.
 
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