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Memoir '44» Forums » General

Subject: What is the ratio is the game to the real thing rss

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Julie Buse
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Like how much time is compare to one turn, Like is it equal to 4 hours?? The Hex equal to how much area? What is the size of each infintary and armour unit is equal to, a squad, partoon, 3 tanks??
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brian
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Athena60_98 wrote:
Like how much time is compare to one turn, Like is it equal to 4 hours?? The Hex equal to how much area? What is the size of each infintary and armour unit is equal to, a squad, partoon, 3 tanks??

It adapts to the scenario. So the answer is there is no standard time, area, size of your forces.
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John O'Haver
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Someone once did an analysis by scenario and figured out the hex scale telescopes from a few hundred yards per hex out to several miles per hex depending on the scenario.
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Ian Smith
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Way too abstract a game for any meaningful scale.
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George Husted
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Gun range...

Weapons have a maximum effective range and a doctrinal use.

The standard range that tanks employ in the game is 3 hexes and they suffer no loss of effectiveness.

Typical maximum effective engagement range for typical armor in WWII would have been about 1,000 meters or less. (German late war heavy tanks excepted.) I believe that the distance that each hex represents in Memoir'44 is about 300M. For this reason, I have made several attempts (without success) to discuss the issue that Memoir'44 should have different rules for different tanks. (This issue is somewhat resolved with the Tank Destroyer and Heavy Anti-tank Gun rules found in Winter Wars.)

There are those on these forums that will argue until the cows come home about this issue and site all sorts of gamey stuff to "prove" their point.

Physics don't change and the doctrines of the time reflected the technology of the time and the physics involved. It was physically impossible for a 75mm cannon to have an effective range of "several miles" given the balistics of the ammunition of the time period, the terrain, and the optics in use. That is utter nonsense.

This may be of interest to read:
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WO 291/1212, "Ranges of engagement in the ATk battle" was published in December 1951 by E. Benn and R. W. Shephard. Shephard is one of the authors of "Applied Operations Research" (Plenum Press, New York, 1988, by Shephard, Hartley, Haysman, Thorpe and Bathe) which includes a problem based on this study and a table giving what appears to be the original raw data gleaned from unit war diaries.

The formula

P = 1 – exp (–R/K)

was found to be a good expression for the proportion, P, of engagements that occur at ranges of less than R yards.

For NW Europe, K is about 950 yards.

90% of engagements occur at less than 2200 yards;
80% of engagements occur at less than 1500 yards;
50% of engagements occur at less than 650 yards.

AORG Memo no. C6, "A survey of tank warfare in Europe from D-Day to 12 August 1944", by H.G. Gee, May 1952 (available at the PRO as WO 291/1218), is based on 112 tank vs. tank actions fought by 21 AG. It gives the mean engagement ranges for this sample as 405 yards (standard deviation 380) in close country, and 1204 yards (standard deviation 735) in open country.

BRL Memo no. 798, "Data on World War II tank engagements involving the US Third and Fourth Armored Divisions", by D. C. Hardison, June 1954, is based on 86 tank vs. tank and tank vs. anti-tank engagements fought by the divisions mentioned. It gives the average ranges at which tanks were destroyed, in yards, as follows:

Allied tanks__Enemy tanks__Place
476____________N/A_______Vicinity Stollberg
959____________733_______Roer to Rhein
1000___________833_______Belgian Bulge
1260___________936_______Vicinity Arracourt
1116___________831_______Sarre
731____________915_______Relief of Bastogne

The overall mean casualty ranges are given as 946 yds for Allied and 893 yds for enemy tanks. The distribution of combat ranges was found to fit approximately to a Pearson
III distribution.

Both the negative exponential (Shephard) and Pearson III (Hardison) distributions have long tails, meaning that there are many enegagements at short ranges and very few at very long ranges. There, are, though, rare cases of engagements at extremely long ranges.

The greatest ranges mentioned for any action in those listed by the above studies are:

Shephard: 4,800 yards (118 actions)
Gee: 3,000 yards (112 actions)
Hardison: 3,500 yards (86 actions)

"Red Army Handbook 1939-1945", by S. J. Zaloga and L. S. Ness, 1998 (Alan Sutton, Thrupp) gives on page 179 a table of the ranges in metres at which Soviet tanks and assault guns were knocked out by 75mm and 88mm guns in 1943-44, as follows:

Range_______75mm gun_____88mm gun
100-200_______10.0%_________4.0%
200-400_______26.1%________14.0%
400-600_______33.5%________18.0%
600-800_______14.5%________31.2%
800-1000_______7.0%________13.5%
1000-1200______4.5%_________8.5%
1200-1400______3.6%_________7.6%
1400-1600______0.4%_________2.0%
1600-1800______0.4%_________0.7%
1800-2000______0.0%_________0.5%

The original has omitted the line for 600-800 metres, so I have calculated the entries for that line by subtracting the sum of each column from 100%.

For infantry engagements, work by Rowland and Speight, based if I recall aright on the "Chinese Eye" series of experiments, shows that attacking infantry typically unmask at about 300 metres.

Jane's Infantry Weapons for 1975 contains a couple of graphs showing the expected range of rifle and MG engagements, although the source is not given apart from a vague reference to "US statisticians".

For rifles,

About 30% of engagements take place at 100 metres or less
About 72% of engagements take place at 200 metres or less
About 88% of engagements take place at 300 metres or less
About 97% of engagements take place at 400 metres or less

For MGs,

About 50% of engagements take place at 750 metres or less
About 80% of engagements take place at 1200 metres or less
About 95% of engagements take place at 1600 metres or less
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Hat tip to John D Salt (27 Jun 2010 4:25 p.m. PST )
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=202085

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