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Subject: 5 masters. Do they work in a 40 point game? rss

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Phil S
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I'm busy opening some packs of Revolution the other day and out of the second one I open I get the Constitution. A big, brawny, 22 pointer. I put together this beautiful piece, look at it for a while, then set it next to the Leicaster, Superb, Harbinger....my ever growing collection of Monster 4 and 5 mast ships I never seem to play with. Now, don't get me wrong, I will eventually throw out these dreadnaughts and play them when I get around to playing a multi-hundred point game. But in a 40 point game, I can never seem to find a way to fit in a 5 master. One of my boys put together a 40 point fleet for a game, leading off with the Leicaster (c'mon, my 11 year old wanted to blow the table away). I put together a fleet with nothing greater than a 3 mast. Indeed, I only had a single 3 mast ship in my fleet. I had my son beat inside of 20 minutes. And only once was he able to bring his big guy's guns to bear, only to miss.

So I'm left wondering, do the big 4 a 5 mast ships have a place in a 40 point environment? What has everyone else experienced out there? I myself put speed and manouverability above guns whenever I put together a fleet. I also look for versatility in my ship's individual abilities, making sure I have ships that can't be hit by "L" guns, or that can steal treasure. To me (at least), brawn simply cannot win this game at all.
 
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Geoffrey Moehl
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I tend to use 11 and 12 point ships and put on the cannoneer for extra firepower in a 40 point game. Using a 22 point ship is risky.
 
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Phil S
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Exactly my point. I just can't see a 40 point game with a 20+ point ship in my fleet. I tend to hover at around 13 point ships or less. And to me, 13 is pushing it. How do you fit crew on your ships if you spend all your points on ships? Crew make or break a game.

Any other opinions?
 
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Alex Lanceley
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They certainly dont seem common, I firmly believe treasure is the way to focus in normal games, and the 4/5 masters are generally warships. There is one guy round here who plays a Revenant with very tooled up crew (Jack Hawkins, Helmsman, Captain, Hag Of Tortuga, Shipwright), and has had some fair success with it. It completely ignores gold (as it cant really carry any ) and just steams across the board blowing ships up as it goes (it has taken out two ships in one turn before now). My own French gold hunting fleet generally beats it, but a couple of good rolls for extra actions and he can have me...

We actually play 100pt a side gunnery battles reasonably often, and dont find them too slow, they are well worth a go. It gives you a good chance to use a lot of ships that you otherwise might not, I have found. The biggest ship in my 40pt fleet is a 3-mast...whereas my 100pt consists of 5x 5 masters arrrh

Basically, I think 4/5 masters can work in normal games if they are tooled up to negate their speed problems, but they do still have a weakness against fleets with a lot of small ships.
 
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Erik Swedlund
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The largest ship I've ever commissioned for battle was the HMS Lord Algernon, a five-master for 15 points, outfitted with a captain (3 pts) and a shipwright (2 pts). This was in a 30 pt game. My other ship was tiny with S+L movement with a helmsman for the +S (don't remember the ship at the moment). I planned for the Lord Algernon basically to run interference for my gold-runner, with the shipwright handily repairing any damage to take advantage of the Lord Algernon's ability (ignores first hit each turn, so long as she has all masts).

Unfortunately, my opponent got lucky with the gold off his first two wild islands, while I found all the "1" gold pieces. He was heading home with the majority of the gold, so I was forced to cut him off with my gold-runner (which was destroyed) and then sink both his ships with the Lord Algernon. Victory was mine, but much bloodier than I had planned it.
 
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Phil S
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The only problem I see there is if you get a "Robin Hood" opponent. By this I mean an opponent who will run 4 ships in his fleet. He'll have 2 for running to Islands for gold. He'll split them up, grab and run. The other 2 ships are the key. One is bait, leading you all over the place thinking he's up to something. Then, when you least expect it, the 4th ship will be revealed to have incredible speed, zip to your home Island, and make off with some treasure. I've seen this type of fleet in action and it is hard to beat. Usually, one of this opponent's ships will be a sacrificial lamb, either ramming your biggest ship, or just getting you to waste a turn while he increases his gold.

I have also seen a very effect 40 point fleet with 6 ships in it. This player was all over the board in a short period of time, grabbing up gold like it was candy. Sheer numbers seem to work well in this game. 3 of this guys ships even grouped together and wasted a 5 mast. Very effective. I've actually put together what I call a "weenie" fleet, just to see how many ships I can put into one fleet and how effective they are. After I test it out, I'll post a review.

Now that I've discussed this with a few people, I am probably going to start trading away some of my Behemoths in order to get doubles of some of the more effective smaller ships, especially schooners. I don't really have time to play the big 100+ point games. Auto sales keeps me busy 60 hours a week.

So, if anyone has any good ideas for 4-5 ship 40 pt fleets, let me know.
 
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Jonathon Mohon
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I am a complete noob when it comes to Pirates. I have played hero clix for a few years and recently tried Pirates out. My first 30 point game I used the Golden Medusa with a pirate captain (18pts), Duque with ransom spanish lady (11pts - 5 for ransom = 6pts), and Gallowglass (6pts). The only ship of mine that attacked in the entire game was Golden Medusa. With the ability to attack at the end of a move action I sunk all 3 ships of my opponent.

Golden Medusa is a 4 mast schooner so my maneuverability and long range guns were great! I guess my point is if I can do that with 18pts whats the point of 20+ points?

**EDIT**
I just read that a fleet has to consist of the same country for every ship. Well how do you accomplish that when you play a sealed game?
**EDIT**
 
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Erik Swedlund
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JMOxx75 wrote:
I just read that a fleet has to consist of the same country for every ship. Well how do you accomplish that when you play a sealed game?


Actually, the rules state that a fleet may consist of ships from mixed nations. The only nationality limits are that crew members may only use their abilities while aboard a ship of their nation (with the exception of the Marine keyword, now in PotR, which allows ability use on an island) and (new in PotR) 0-point cost crew can only be loaded on a ship of their nation.
 
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Erik Swedlund
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phils wrote:
I am probably going to start trading away some of my Behemoths in order to get doubles of some of the more effective smaller ships, especially schooners.


I have just recently seen in the WizKids Pirates forums that a new "no duplicates" rule is being added, for everything except generic crew (and pieces of gold). No copies of named crew in a game, no copies of unique treasures, and no copies of a specific ship or fort.

In a 40-point game, I'm sure you can find an adequate variety of suitable smaller schooners.

Of course, for friendly home-play, ignore any rule you please.
 
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