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Subject: Promo pics and FAQ entry are up rss

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David Gregg
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The Martial Law promos have been added to the BGG database and to the Official Nightfall FAQ:



Nightfall: Ahmad Hassan Promo - FAQ Entry
Nightfall: Desperate Measures Promo - FAQ Entry
Nightfall: Pale Fury Promo - FAQ Entry
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Eric Foldenauer
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aaaah! You tease!

Must. have.
 
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I already talked about how excited I am to play with Ahmad, and the other two do not disappoint either.

Desperate Measures clearly shows why you can't just use a shorthand "Feed #" notation on the cards, because the mechanic was intended to be expanded. Also another awesome kicker that I'm sure can be used with some great combos when I get some time to look them over. Obviously the first time I can play this I'm going to get rid of all my starters right away and either combine this with wound exile and/or use it to setup a martial law wound card onslaught. I mean if I understand this right, then if I have an empty discard I can draw as many wounds as I want into my hand as soon as I can chain this card. Which can turn into an early martial law wound auto win. This card looks to have serious potential.

On top of this we get to see what a 6 damage card looks like and hey, it's basically Ahmad's buddy!
 
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Oliver Graf
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So, when do we get them? Perhaps in Essen, together with Blood Country?
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David Gregg
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isobaby wrote:
I mean if I understand this right, then if I have an empty discard I can draw as many wounds as I want into my hand as soon as I can chain this card. Which can turn into an early martial law wound auto win. This card looks to have serious potential.

If you only have a tiny deck then you certainly could intentionally wound yourself with the kicker solely to draw a huge hand full of wounds, just keep in mind that you'll be dropping your score quite a bit to pull that off.
 
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David Gregg
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lydon wrote:
So, when do we get them? Perhaps in Essen, together with Blood Country?

They were first released at GenCon to the attendees of AEG's Big Gaming Night. Not sure when they'll become publicly available.
 
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s3rvant wrote:
isobaby wrote:
I mean if I understand this right, then if I have an empty discard I can draw as many wounds as I want into my hand as soon as I can chain this card. Which can turn into an early martial law wound auto win. This card looks to have serious potential.

If you only have a tiny deck then you certainly could intentionally wound yourself with the kicker solely to draw a huge hand full of wounds, just keep in mind that you'll be dropping your score quite a bit to pull that off.


I'm concerned about this effect in 1v1. Already the combination of using normal wounds to draw your deck into your hand, and then using the martial law wound to end the game is proving a commonly powerful tactic. The person who is clearly behind by a landslide can turn around and win within a turn or two because of the translation of 1 wound for 1 wound + usually a superior offense in the short term from being able to draw their entire deck into their hand. Overflow is also something that exacerbates this problem.

This is just some quick theory because I don't have Desperate Measure yet, but it appears to encourage this sort of degenerate strategy. It's interesting because I've found that card draw makes the base wound -> martial law wound combo even easier to pull off, and this card will let you do it all within one turn. I'm particularly scared of this being chained on an opponent's chain early on in the game when the person playing the order has at least 1 or 2 minions on the board already. Actually this card seems to give the player who has it in their hand the potential to outright win the game at a point where their offense on any one particular turn surmounts their opponents. zombie
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David Gregg
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isobaby wrote:
It's interesting because I've found that card draw makes the base wound -> martial law wound combo even easier to pull off

It is indeed a strong combo, though you can't do it every turn (as using the ML wound prevents you from using the NF wound later). I've not had any feedback from the playtesters suggesting that it was an issue.

isobaby wrote:
Actually this card seems to give the player who has it in their hand the potential to outright win the game at a point where their offense on any one particular turn surmounts their opponents. zombie

surprise That's it... I need new playtesters... Worst case scenario is don't use both ML wounds and Desperate Measures in the same game.

Edit: or you could, you know, just let it exist for that occasional "oh crap" instant-win
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One of the greatest things about deck building games is that what you are able to put into your deck changes from game to game and everyone has to use the same pool of cards for the most part. This attribute also makes these sorts of games much easier to balance.

Of course in Nightfall there's the cool draft stage where you can outright ban cards if some come up that you believe are broken, imbalanced or are not fun to play with. This unfortunately breaks down as more cards are introduced that fall into one of those categories. The chances of one of them being dealt into the commons or there not being enough bans to take care of them all becomes much higher as more are introduced. The chances of seeing people play the relatively under powered cards also goes down.

I think the main issue with a card like Desperate Measures is that it is a must ban card. While currently you'll see cards like Franz and Legion Ten on that list, they'll most definitely have to take a backseat in the bans to cards like Desperate Measures. This is going to add a lot of power creep to the game and I think that while the current ban drafting system is holding up balance in the game, there's a critical number of power cards it can sustain before the private archives mechanic breaks down. Already these power cards can spill out into the commons and it becomes a race to grab them and take turns cannibalizing chains back and forth. If these start over flowing into private archives, the game is going to take a nose dive in the balance arena.

 
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Abdiel Gotabo
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@Isobaby: I agree. It’s funny because my first reaction after seeing the Martial Arts promo was getting angry that AEG is commercializing these interesting cards as promos trying to get people to buy them. But now I think I’m better off ignoring them and keeping the “just normal” game equilibrated. Although I appreciate the work done by David Gregg so far, managing to keep the power of the cards equilibrated and I’m judging without having actually played and tested the game with the promos, but I think that AEG will have neither the time to test them sufficiently while following this make-the-promos-spectacular-so-everybody’s-gonna-buy-them-scheme while releasing a new expansion every 4 month. I fear they will destroy the game equilibrium. I wonder what the Blood Country promos will be like, they’ll have to think of a hell of card texts to top the already released.

I hope David and AEG know what they´re doing.
 
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Todd Rowland
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Promos are never a sales mechanism, at least as we do them in Nightfall. They are promotional, hence the name. If we wanted to make profit off promos, we'd just package them as an expansion and put them on the store shelf! :)

As it stands we usually take a loss on most promos, from a pure $ standpoint. They're there to keep attention on the product and add value to existing product.
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David Gregg
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AbdielGotabo wrote:
I’m judging without having actually played and tested the game with the promos

I actually develop 27 cards at a time, 24 for the set and the 3 promos. That way they are all equally playtested and we can feel comfortable releasing the promos slowly between sets without messing anything up. We do of course keep balance and equilibrium in mind. Desperate Measures could just have easily have been one of the Martial Law actions since none of the playtest teams caught this particular combo.

Unfortunately we are very limited on playtest time, but we do the best we can. I follow some very strict formulas in creating all of the cards, but I can't account for everything, especially as we add new mechanics to an ever growing card pool.
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Joseph Soonsin Lee
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I can not wait to get these promos, when they are publicly available, that is
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Blue Jackal
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I was thinking about Pale Fury - I wonder if we'll ever see a Minion which provides some advantageous effect while In Play but punishes (perhaps via Wounds) the player if the Minion gets to attack. It'd give you another reason to snatch up Pale Fury.
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David Gregg
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BlueJackal wrote:
I wonder if we'll ever see a Minion which provides some advantageous effect while In Play but punishes (perhaps via Wounds) the player if the Minion gets to attack.

Funny you should say that, one such minion just finished playtesting and is headed to the printers
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