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Subject: GeekMod - Images and Copyright rss

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Friederike
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Hi!

I've just started trying to contribute to GeekMod and I am not really sure about the guidelines especially for pictures.

Quite often promotional images are submitted, sometimes in the notes or captions it is mentioned from which page they are taken.
An example is this (definitely very useful) picture
.

As such images normally seem to get approved, is it ok to upload them?
I would have thought you needed permission for that.

So my question is: In which cases is it allowed to upload images from publisher or game store websites?

And - if permission is necessary: How do I find out whether the user uploading it has acquired the permission?

The answer to this is probably obvious, but being a Newbie, I just don't know, so would appreciate help.
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Daniel Danzer
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First rule for submitting images:
"You must own the image in some way or have permission to use it for this purpose."

So, if a pic is obviously an "official shot", even with the note, where it is from: If there is no remark in the geekmod notes by the submitting user regarding the copyright, decline it with the comment "copyright unexplained", no matter, what others do.

As long as a picture is not under the "creative commons license", it is not free for being published here.

A good example how to do it is this one:



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Liam
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First rule of geek modding:

The better you are at modding the lower your percentage of matches.

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Friederike
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Thanks a lot for your helpful answers.

So I will decline such images in the future instead of skipping them (as I have done up to now).

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Daniel Danzer
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There are, as always, exceptions. People who are involved in the development of the game or W. Eric Martin from Boardgamenews probably not not especially remark, that they have permission to upload the images (or do they in the geekmod note? I don`t know). Unfortunately, GeekMod is anonymous, ...

On the other hand, it is not your fault, if the people submitting images are breaking any rules. By submitting them, they say: "Yes, I HAVE the right to do this." This is a problem all over the internet, so in the end - follow your intuition.
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Walt
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It's all a bit strange, isn't it? In the US, fair use allows a picture of a product in normal use or in the background of the shot, so that takes care of the people gallery.

Many game images violate the copyright on the art in the game. However, the benefits to allowing these shots are so overwhelming (as is the bad publicity for objecting), the game companies allow them although few if any people actually ask them for permission. So, these images are allowed if created by the user or he has permission to copy them. This is just a practical decision because of the amount of user and game company time getting formal permission would require. Rarely a company objects, and typically their games are locked so no images can be uploaded to the game's gallery--you'll never see them.

Images with watermarks--typically, "gamestore.com" visible on the image--are forbidden. The watermark is an indication that the creator does not want his image to be copied--if a user actually had permission, he could get an un-watermarked image. Permission or no, the watermark is unpaid advertising on BGG--not allowed. These should always be rejected.

Welcome to BGG! Thanks for jumping in and GeekModding!
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Friederike
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Thanks a lot for the answers!

duchamp wrote:

On the other hand, it is not your fault, if the people submitting images are breaking any rules. By submitting them, they say: "Yes, I HAVE the right to do this." This is a problem all over the internet, so in the end - follow your intuition.

I have to admit that now I am very confused again.
Of course there will be always borderline cases in which I will have to either use my intuition or use the "skip" button (personally I prefer the later, but after gaining more experience in geekmodding that might change).

But this promotional picture case happens so often, that I would really appreciate a guideline there - otherwise it seems rather random to me.

So:
Should I approve or decline such pictures?
If that depends on the picture, then what does it depend on (e.g. whether it is stated where it comes from, whether the game is published, from which kind of website (publisher/game store) it is...)?

If there are no such guidelines - ok, then I just don't feel competent enough to do the geekmodding.
 
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Gwen
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Rike,


Users are not supposed to upload images they do not own or did not get permission for. When you submit images to BGG, you have to declare that you either own the image or got permission to use it from the rights holder. A lot of people do not seem to have a problem with declaring things which are not true.

Users participating in Geekmod are supposed to geekmod according to the guidelines displayed in the geekmod tool. More often than not users are participating in Geekmod without even having read those clearly visible rules.

So images, which should not have been submitted in the first place, get accepted where they should have been declined. The admins prefer not to interfere in these cases as that apparently could cause legal risks for the site.

It sometimes happens that the rights holder asks for their images to be removed. In those cases, the images involved get deleted by an admin.




Rike wrote:
Thanks a lot for the answers!


I have to admit that now I am very confused again.
Of course there will be always borderline cases in which I will have to either use my intuition or use the "skip" button (personally I prefer the later, but after gaining more experience in geekmodding that might change).

But this promotional picture case happens so often, that I would really appreciate a guideline there - otherwise it seems rather random to me.

So:
Should I approve or decline such pictures?
If that depends on the picture, then what does it depend on (e.g. whether it is stated where it comes from, whether the game is published, from which kind of website (publisher/game store) it is...)?

If there are no such guidelines - ok, then I just don't feel competent enough to do the geekmodding.
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Patrick G.
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If geekmods are supposed to be consistent how about they start removing previous images that the people don't have permission for?

How about starting with every image from every FFG game preview that isn't uploaded by someone from FFG?

That way people don't waste their time trying to contribute to this site in ways that are not supposed to be done.
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Gwen
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corkysru wrote:
If geekmods are supposed to be consistent how about they start removing previous images that the people don't have permission for?

How about starting with every image from every FFG game preview that isn't uploaded by someone from FFG?

That way people don't waste their time trying to contribute to this site in ways that are not supposed to be done.


Why would this be a responsability of the geekmods only ? If you want to contribute to the site by submitting images, why would it be too much trouble to read the upload rules first ? Everyone who read the upload rules (really not something that takes a whole lot of time to do) knows that they potentially waste their time by uploading images which are not following these rules.

Do you happen to be the user who is trying to get another load of FFG images through geekmod despite them being declined a couple of times already ?
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Friederike
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gwen wrote:

Do you happen to be the user who is trying to get another load of FFG images through geekmod despite them being declined a couple of times already ?

I really like geekmodding, but I find it rather annoying having to geekmod the same picture a second time.

Most of the FFG images get accepted though. My impression is that the approval rate is about 90%. That raises the question again though, whether it wouldn't be a good idea to stress more forcefully that pictures from other sources should not be uploaded without permission.
 
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Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
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Rike wrote:
gwen wrote:

Do you happen to be the user who is trying to get another load of FFG images through geekmod despite them being declined a couple of times already ?

I really like geekmodding, but I find it rather annoying having to geekmod the same picture a second time.

Most of the FFG images get accepted though. My impression is that the approval rate is about 90%. That raises the question again though, whether it wouldn't be a good idea to stress more forcefully that pictures from other sources should not be uploaded without permission.


I was one of two Image Admins on the RPGG domain for 18 months
and the Image Admin on VGG for a year

see Wanted: One RPG Geek Image Admin

to stress more forcefully means sending geekmails and educating users one at a time

edit: on all the details of the Image Policies

the above thread says I sent over 1000 geekmails, it may have been closer to 2000 gulp

that is the first contact with the user, it does not include the multiple geekmail conversations I had with the users
.... many of those users are now my friends on the Geek thumbsup

I was able to do this because geekmod is slower on the other domains
I had time to decline images in geekmod and contact the users via geekmail

they learned to follow ..
RPGG Image Policy
VGG Image Policy



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Slipper Shod Master of Mayhem
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I always wonder about people who use "geekmod" as though it was a noun referring to a group of people.

Every member of the site can be a "geekmod". They don't have any special rights or privileges on the site. Just click the button marked geekmod, vote on one thing and you're now a geekmod with all the rights and privileges that entails.

To me, those rights and privileges largely seem to be that you can count on being collectively insulted a few times a week, at least on BGG. If you aren't happy with the way things are geekmodded, become a geekmod and vote for things correctly. If you're really unhappy, then suggest a change in the rules.

Bob is a big factor in making geekmod work better on rpg and vgg, but I think the other factor is that the rules actually change to reflect evolution of standards and expectations. That's not true on BGG where the image policy has only been changed to include references to the gallery.

My favorite is this rule:
"Please do NOT submit individual images for every mini or every card in a minis heavy or card heavy game. This is especially true for collectible minis games and CCGs."

What is a "minis heavy" or "card heavy" game? If it isn't in that category, apparently I'm free to submit an image for every mini or card in the game since there is no reference to how many images are appropriate for games where are not "minis heavy" or "card heavy".

I think the rule needs to be more clear. You can certainly find galleries where there are many shots of individual components. Maybe the rule should say something like "Do not submit images of individual components if there are already images of 20% of the unique components" or something like that.

Part of the problem is people not following the rules (as both submitters and modders), but part of it is a lack of clarity in the rules.
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Friederike
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stargate wrote:

they learned to follow ..
RPGG Image Policy
VGG Image Policy

That's an impressive job you did and I really like the detailed information on image policies, which are very helpful to understand the rules. Because at least for me the rules here are not always clear - which was the reason for starting this thread. Now the rules have become a bit clearer to me thanks to all the helpful replies!
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Old & Chaotic Evil Bob
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Rike wrote:
stargate wrote:

they learned to follow ..
RPGG Image Policy
VGG Image Policy

That's an impressive job you did and I really like the detailed information on image policies, which are very helpful to understand the rules. Because at least for me the rules here are not always clear - which was the reason for starting this thread. Now the rules have become a bit clearer to me thanks to all the helpful replies!


Thank You

I did not write the Image Policies
the VGG Policy was basically copied from the RPGG site with tweaks for the differences in product

I did help to tweak the policies

some rules were epic fails, they were changed or removed
some rules were tightened to close some loopholes creative users found

they are still not perfect and never will be
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