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Subject: More Forgiving Betting rss

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Sean Ross
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More Forgiving Betting
Credit: Graeme Jahns and Steve Norton

If you would like to encourage more betting in the 3 player game, you may wish to try this variant:

The player that goes out first scores 20 points for any missed Big Bets and 10 points for any missed Little Bets; the other players (even if they have missed their own bets) score 10 points for an opponent's missed Big Bet or 5 points for a missed Little Bet.


Under this variant, the total penalty for a missed Big Bet is only 30 points, with two thirds going to the player that goes out first and the final third going to the other opponent. Since the total penalty in the official rules is twice as much (in general, both opponents score 30 points for your missed Big Bet), this more forgiving betting model may certainly help encourage reluctant bettors to take the plunge and start putting up stakes more often. If you also have reluctant bettors in your two player games, you could employ a slightly modified version of this variant, whereby a player that goes out first would only score 20 points for a missed Big Bet (instead of the full 30 points) or 10 points for a missed Little Bet (instead of the full 15 points); the remaining third of the penalty is simply not awarded in this case.
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Houserule Jay
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This was VERY close to what I posted in Nov 2010 in my comments. I always meant to post it in the variant section but forgot, going to render that now I guess
(I settled on a 12/20 for the bets, and have one other change to scoring as well)

 
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Gustavo
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Sean,

Why is that you decided to do the betting system different in Haggis than in Tichu, that is, to give the betting points to the opponents rather than just to loose them? Wouldn't that solve this whole problem of loosing bets in a 3-player game? Of course, that would probably make the game longer too...
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Sean Ross
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gmsa84 wrote:
Why is that you decided to do the betting system different in Haggis than in Tichu...Of course, that would probably make the game longer too...
That's pretty much the answer to your question. I wanted to ensure Haggis ended (it's possible, though highly unlikely, for Tichu to never end) and that it ended in a reasonably short amount of time (I've played Tichu games that took 2 hours or more to reach the game ending trigger - I enjoyed every minute of it, but some people prefer shorter games when playing with only 2 or 3). There other ways I could have done this, while still maintaining a subtractive betting system, but I preferred the solution I chose.
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Gillum the Stoor
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If I understand this correctly, the following summarizes the original and revised bet scoring for 3-player Haggis:

Original:
1. Player going out first gets her bet (15 or 30).
2. Bets of other players (15 or 30 each) get added to the score of both (1) the player who went out first; and (2) the other player if she did not bet.

Revised:
1. Player going out first gets her bet (15 or 30).
2. 2/3 of the bet of each other player (i.e., 10 or 20 each) gets added to score of the player who went out first.
3. 1/3 of the bet of each player who didn't go out first (i.e., 5 or 10 each) gets added to the score of the other player who didn't go out first (even if that other player bet).

If that's right, this would encourage more betting, not only because the penalty for losing is cut in half but also because you can score points from another player's lost bet even if you bet and lose. (Maybe this last part isn't that important.)

One nice thing about the original bet scoring was that it could be restated simply as follows:
1. The player who goes out first scores the sum of all the players’ bets.
2. Any other player that did not bet scores any bet made by the other player if that other player did not go out first.

I really like the simplicity of that first part.

But the revised bet scoring is nice because the total points scored for bets (by all players) is exactly the sum of all the bets:
1. The bet of a player who goes out first is scored by that player.
2. The bet of any other player is divided, with 2/3 going to the player who went out and 1/3 going to the other player.
 
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Sean Ross
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It's about 4 years, now, since I posted this variant and, looking back at it, I'm going to have to say that - for a revised version of the scoring for 3 player bets - this is probably more complicated than I'd like. Right now, if there is a change going forward, I'm leaning more towards adopting this variant instead:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1431733/chieftain-o-puddin-...
 
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