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Magic: The Gathering» Forums » Rules

Subject: Help! Tapping Question rss

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Aaron Farris
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Apparently I have been playing my Tap deck wrong according to my friends.

When an opponent declares an attack with a creature and I have a creature that has the ability to tap target creature on the field can I tap his creature in response to him declaring his attack? I am told once a player declares an attack there is no way the creature can be tapped because the creature has already been tapped to attack (given the creature doesn't have vigilance) so my creatures ability wouldn't go on the stack before the attack? even with an instant card that says tap target creature?

I am confused and would appreciate clarification from someone else other than my friends although I trust their knowledge on the game rules.
Thanks!!!!shake
 
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PenumbraPenguin
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Once the creature has attacked, it is too late to stop it by tapping it. How it is supposed to work is that your opponent says "I'm about to attack", and then you can tap some of his creatures if you want, and then he can attack with any that are still untapped. You don't get to see what he wants to attack with before making your tapping decisions.

If your opponent doesn't give you this chance, then when he starts to attack, say "Hang on, I want to do something first..."
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Simon Tan
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The Combat Phase is pretty much broken down into the following steps:

- Beginning of Combat
- Declare Attackers
- Declare Blockers (combat damage assignment also goes here)
- Combat Damage
- End of Combat

Before going to the next step, priority is given for instants, activated abilities, and the like...

In your case, you pretty much have to decide if you want to cast that Twiddle or use that Icy Manipulator during the Beginning of Combat phase, before your opponent tells you which of his creatures are going to attack.
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Chad Hackman
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Sounds like you got cheated, but it depends on what you wanted to accomplish. Your opponent should declare an attack phase and let you do a pre-attack response. If he doesn't like your response, he doesn't have to attack. But, he can not just push everything forward without giving you a response. Likewise, you can not forgo a pre-attack response and wait for him to tap his creatures before you interrupt them.
 
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PenumbraPenguin
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There's no need to assume that his opponent was cheating - this is not an uncommon rule to not understand.

It's also fine for the opponent to expect you to stop them if you want to do something.
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Aaron Farris
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Okay I understand. Is a player supposed to declare that they are going into an attack phase then? because an opponent can just draw and then attack right away not letting me get a peep out before they tap their creature(s) to attack. Is that fair?
 
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Aaron Farris
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Okay so what I found out is this. A person should declare the beginning of their combat phase if there is a creature on the field that has the ability to tap their own because if they use what is referred to as a shortcut from their draw step straight to tapping their creature(s) in their attack phase then the opponent has the right to back them up to the point where they have priority to make their desired move which is before the attack phase where the beginning of the combat phase takes place.

Now it is common by my understanding for players not to announce every phase they enter but to avoid this scenario I recommend for the player with cards that tap an opponents creatures you tell your opponent to announce the beginning of their combat phase at the start of the game or you will back them up.

Thank you guys for your input.
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Angelo Nikolaou
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Veteran question:

OK, from what I remember from my 6th edition rules days, there was no 'Beginning of Combat Phase'. If both players passed during the main phase, the active player got to choose his attackers. For that reason, the defender needed to tap during the main phase.

I actually did that in a tournament a few days ago. My opponent said 'I tap your creature' and I said 'Continuing my main phase, here's a creature with haste'. My opponent was also a veteran, maybe he didn't notice the mistake or he didn't know the new rule as well
 
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Aaron Farris
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I am quite the green horn with everything Magic but I have had quite the learning curve playing with five veteran players. I am unaware that this is a new implemented rule to have a "begging combat phase". I just concluded from what I read on the forums of the official Magic The Gathering site and this was the general consensus. I can't imagine playing this game since the Beta and Alpha days and abiding to how much the rules have changed. would you say as a veteran yourself that these rule changes are for the better given the varying situations?
 
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Angelo Nikolaou
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Yes, every rules change Magic has done was for the better. This change simplifies situations by having mana in your pool for Combat phase and avoiding the trick I did above.

Also, by simplifying, they reduce the 'ruleslawyer' effect, in which some players win games simply by knowing the rules better. Yes, experience should win you games over inexperience, but that should be through gameplay and not through memorization (this is also the reason why they cut manaburn)

Yes, the old stack allowed for more cool and effective tricks. But the new one is better for new players and less mind-bogging.
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PenumbraPenguin
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Airun88 wrote:
Okay I understand. Is a player supposed to declare that they are going into an attack phase then? because an opponent can just draw and then attack right away not letting me get a peep out before they tap their creature(s) to attack. Is that fair?


They don't really need to declare that they are, but if they don't, you have the right to say "Hang on, I want to do something at this point...".

Airun88 wrote:
A person should declare the beginning of their combat phase if there is a creature on the field that has the ability to tap their own...


It is common to ask in this situation, because if you don't, the opponent will just interrupt you.

Airun88 wrote:
Now it is common by my understanding for players not to announce every phase they enter but to avoid this scenario I recommend for the player with cards that tap an opponents creatures you tell your opponent to announce the beginning of their combat phase at the start of the game or you will back them up.


There's nothing wrong with interrupting them and saying you want to take an action at a particular point. You may not want to let your opponent know that you have such cards.

Moonleaf wrote:
I actually did that in a tournament a few days ago. My opponent said 'I tap your creature' and I said 'Continuing my main phase, here's a creature with haste'. My opponent was also a veteran, maybe he didn't notice the mistake or he didn't know the new rule as well


Yeah, if this happened in beginning of combat (which is where it's assumed to happen if it goes "I attack with..." "Hang on, I tap that"), then it's not in your main phase any more).

Airun88 wrote:
I am unaware that this is a new implemented rule to have a "begging combat phase".


The beginning of combat step was introduced with 6th edition, in 1999. Not a terribly new rule
 
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Angelo Nikolaou
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PenumbraPenguin wrote:
The beginning of combat step was introduced with 6th edition, in 1999. Not a terribly new rule


Maybe I remember 5th edition rules. Too much Shandalar
 
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Lexingtonian
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Thanks, everyone. My friend and I have been doing this wrong.
 
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