Ray
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After having been somewhat disappointed by the Highlands expansion, and to some extent the Dungeon expansion since I think it was inferior to the Dungeon expansion to the 2nd edition, I've become a little worried about future expansions from FFG for this game. Are there hearts truly into this project, or is this just a money maker for them.

Now what about this Dragon expansion for the new revised 4th edition of the game? Is it worth crossing that unstable rickety bridge after traveling miles through thick jungle to get a copy, or should one pass on the temptation and be happy with what you already have - even if it includes the Highlands expansion among the batch.

So, let's hear from those who have bought the new Dragon expansion, and has by now actually played a game with it. Will you say...

Poll
I could have passed on this expansion.
I like it, but the expansion isn't anything special.
I really like it, and I'm glad I picked it up. I would recommend it.
I'm a Talisman nut, so good, bad, or so-so, I had to get the expansion.
I have another reason, see explanation below.
      55 answers
Poll created by RayGuns
 
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Rob Francis
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“"To Aetius, now consul for the third time: the groans of the Britons ... The barbarians drive us to the sea; the sea throws us back on the barbarians: thus two modes of death await us, we are either slain or drowned".” ―Gildas
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I had all the available expansions up until recently but found the game dragged and there were too many cards that were just padding. As a result we just play with The Reaper and sometimes Highlands and Dungeon. I find that keeping it relatively simple helps the game speed along.

I will be getting Talisman (Revised 4th Edition): The Dragon Expansion because the middle region is a massive anti-climax unless you have a race on at the end. I think my group will welcome a change to the centre of the board.
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Elliott Eastoe
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Well if you think that the revised 4th Dungeon expansion is inferior to the 2nd edition version, then there is little hope for you! You must be joking? Less spaces, less cards, inferior artwork. Need I carry on! The revised 4th edition is better in every aspect
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Joe Gregoriou
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Personally, I think the game has gotten too big and complex again. My friend and I hardly ever play with the big-box expansions.
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Mr. Bistro
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I would recommend it just because it sounds like you're looking for more to do, and not necessarily looking for more places to go. The Dragon seems to have just that. Itlooks like it will add to the base game nicely, perhaps even offering up an extra level of fun that won't take away from the traditional Talisman experience.
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Justin Pranger
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I picked up a copy at PAX this weekend and got a chance to play it with all the expansions. I agree that the Highlands is a disappointing expansion but the Dragon Expansion does add something new. It can make the game harder, most of the dragons are 7-10 strength/craft, and because it doen't add any new Encounter cards it' they don't get lost in mountain of encounter cards from all the other expansions.
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Rauli Kettunen
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What's your take on the added fiddliness? Seriously, drawing token(s) at the start of each turn, resolving them before I get to do my turn? Tokens add the Dragon expansion stuff in regularly, but couldn't there have been another method of doing it?
 
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Pawel Gutowski
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You can always house rule this one. I also don't like maintenance task for every turn and I do have a nice idea how to make it work other way
 
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Elliott Eastoe
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guciomir wrote:
You can always house rule this one. I also don't like maintenance task for every turn and I do have a nice idea how to make it work other way


Please do tell my friend!

Ell.
 
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Pawel Gutowski
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This is just theory, since there is no polish version of the Dragon yet. But I will try the following:

Before the game starts:
1. at the beginning of the game each player chooses a random dragon token and rolls a die, then puts dragon scale on a field which is clockwise from his starting point, the distance is the number on the die. Whenever someone lands on a field with dragon scale, he/she must draw from dragon deck.(regardless who is dragon king).
2. one dragon is chosen to be a king at the start of the game
3. some scales are placed in highlands/dungeon - don't have a good idea right now how to handle this, i would need to see all the cards from the dragon deck
4. use new board, most probably dragon realm, not dragon tower
5. any ending can be used, you don't have to fight dragon king if you visit crown of command

After the game is started:
1. If a dragon is revealed from any deck, choose a dragon token at random, roll a die, put a scale on the board. Put a token on the dragon prince just as per normal rules.
2. Dragon Scales do not grant fighting bonuses.
3. If a dragon prince gets 3 tokens, he become new dragon king and loses all tokens, maybe does extra dragon rage since he is happy to rule.

I hope that it will achieve the following:
1. dragon cards will be used, but they will feel rather as "addition" and not a "alternative scenario"
2. no stupid maintenance task each turn
3. any alternative ending can be used
4. dragons will not be overwhelming even though dragon scales will not grant bonuses
5. game will probably be much much easier to understand, not so many new mechanics will be used during the game

Of course, since I don't own the Dragon (and will not own it for some months ), I can't test this. I know that some changes will be needed, but I feel it can be a good start for finding a nice house rule.

How do you like it? Any suggestions?
 
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Andy Allardyce
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I've also been devising some alternate rules for the Dragon Expansion, (even though I don't have the game yet). My goals are to utilize the new cards / tokens, but not let the Dragons completely dominate the game, and to reduce the maintenance aspect of the rules. I'm also trying to bring it more in line with normal Talisman gameplay, because I know that's what my usual opponents (10 year-old sons) will want.


This is what I got so far:

- Do not use the Dragon board overlay, or change the standard victory condition. Players still try to reach the Crown of Command, at which point they cast the Command Spell.

- Combine the 3 Draconic Lord card decks into one “Dragon Deck”. The colour of the top card identifies the current Dragon King, which will change throughout the game as new cards are drawn. In this way, the rotation of the Dragon King remains, but the conflict occurs silently in the background without the need for active maintenance.

- After rolling a 6 for movement, players encounter the Dragon King, which must be resolved before proceeding with their turn. The colour of the top card on the Dragon Deck identifies which of the Dragons is encountered. A matching dragon scale is immediately placed on the square where the character is standing (or adjacent square if token already in place).


- Encounters with the Dragon Lord. Roll dice with following results:

1. Attacked by Dragon King (Varthrax – S14, Grilipus – C14, Cadorus ?). If Dragon King is killed, player receives 2 cones of corresponding attribute, plus 1 dragon scale. If player defeated, lose 1 life.
2. Attacked by minion of Dragon King. Encounter first enemy drawn from Dragon Deck (discard other cards).
3. Suffer Dragon Rage of encountered dragon (if unable, lose 1 life).
4. Discard 1 Dragon Scale of matching dragon (if unable, lose 1 life).
5. Receive choice of Dragon Strike, Dragon Rage, or Dragon Sleep tokens.
6. Receive 1 each of Dragon Strike, Dragon Rage, & Dragon Sleep tokens.

- Once the encounter with the Dragon King is resolved, the character moves 6 spaces and continues with their turn as normal.

- Characters ending their movement on a square with a dragon scale ignore all normal board instructions, instead drawing a card from the Dragon Deck (unless any Dragon Deck enemies are already present, in which case no additional cards are drawn). Defeated enemies are kept as trophies, and players also claim the dragon scale after killing an enemy from the Dragon Deck.

- If a Dragon King is killed, cards of the corresponding colour are discarded upon reaching the top of the Dragon Deck. Only those cards associated with surviving Draconic Lords can be encountered.

- Tokens:
Dragon Scales – Add 1 to attack score against matching Draconic Lords / minions, or discard token to avoid corresponding Dragon Rage.
Dragon Rage – Discard token to prevent encountering the Dragon King.
Dragon Strike – Discard token at start of turn, all other players must roll dice and encounter Dragon King on roll of 6 (except when on Crown of Command).
Dragon Sleep – At start of turn, place token on any upturned enemy card to reduce strength / craft by 3 for one encounter.


I really like the idea of a single "Dragon Deck" instead of 3 separate decks. My sons will enjoy that "rolling a 6" triggers the action, instead of the "place a token on every turn" dynamic. They will also like that while the Dragon King can be encountered (and killed), it does not have to be defeated to win the game.

Yeah, I know. Some of these changes are quite big, and may not work out like I hope. But I'm looking forward to finding out.


 
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Morbaus Litchsmack
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If you like Talisman, [even a little] why wouldnt you get this xpansion?
 
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Ian Kelly
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Morbaus wrote:
If you like Talisman, [even a little] why wouldnt you get this xpansion?


Because adding an expansion to a game does not necessarily make the game better. It can in some cases actually make the game worse (e.g. the Battlestar Galactica expansions).
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Ray
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Morbaus wrote:
If you like Talisman, [even a little] why wouldnt you get this xpansion?


Because adding an expansion to a game does not necessarily make the game better. It can in some cases actually make the game worse (e.g. the Battlestar Galactica expansions).


Yes, I agree!
 
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Jin TS
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Well, good question, but four reasons here why i will definitely get it:

First, im a hardcore Talisman fan, no way i'm going to miss this...laugh

Secondly, i always welcome varieties and gives high value to it. The Dragon expansion will add the varieties into the game and if i find them somehow not fun to play with, i will house-rule it and make it fun for us (this is a personal interest where i like to houserule games to suit my taste. U can check out my comments on the way i houseruled my Talisman game here: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/7310233#7310233)... laugh

Thirdly, i'm a completist, so if i find i like certain games, i really don't mind having all of them. laugh

Fourthly, i personally think that the new expansion will add interesting twist into the game and i think i will enjoy it. I do expect the separate decks and tokens to prolong the game and i will house-rule it somehow if i think they are simply too much. I will look for a way to cut down the time for me to enjoy the game, and i don't find it a hassle at all...laugh

Just my personal take on this...

Jin
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Justin Pranger
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Dam the Man wrote:
What's your take on the added fiddliness? Seriously, drawing token(s) at the start of each turn, resolving them before I get to do my turn? Tokens add the Dragon expansion stuff in regularly, but couldn't there have been another method of doing it?


It doesn't really add to much to a players turn. At the minimum you draw a token and put it on one of the dragon lord's cards. At most you have to clear the tokens off the card, move the crown token, then place the dragon scale on the board. This can take 10 sec. That being said, Talisman is a long game, and adding 10 sec to each players' turn can add up. To me it's not that big of a deal.
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Ray
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Well, I just got back from the game store, and guess what I just picked up? Yep, you guessed it. I bought the Dragon expansion to Talisman.

Why did I do that? Well, the poll above had some influence, but also the comments made by Jininthene others made. However, I still strongly agree with what Peristarkawan said above.

Because I'm sorta a Talisman fan, I guess in the end I would eventually have picked it up. However, had the feedback from other Talisman fans been very negative, I might not have.

I haven't even opened the box yet, and it is still wrapped in that clear cellophane. But I'm going to open it shortly and write a review as I do. If you would like, you should be able to read the posting/review very soon.

Thanks to all those that participated in the poll.
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Alex F
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I want to pick up the Dragon expansion next. The corner expansions look nice, especially The Dungeon, but adding a sizable corner to an already large board may prove unwieldy.Unless we choose to play it standalone.

I've read through the Dragon rules first to get a hunch of how it plays,
and it doesn't look complicated.

We don;t like the idea of drawing tokens every turn, so what we may do is simply draw one each time upon encountering an enemy from the adventure deck.
Or tie the drawing to a die roll(like on a one, provided we don't play with the Reaper or Werewolf figures then.Having too many triggers may slow the game down. )
 
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Ray
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magmaxtic wrote:
I want to pick up the Dragon expansion next. The corner expansions look nice, especially The Dungeon, but adding a sizable corner to an already large board may prove unwieldy.Unless we choose to play it standalone.


I know what you mean about adding a sizable corner to the play area. In most cases, this doesn't matter in out gaming group.

But getting back to the Dungeon expansion. If you ever do decide to get one of the corner expansions, I would recommend getting the Dungeon and bypassing the Highlands until much later.

magmaxtic wrote:
I've read through the Dragon rules first to get a hunch of how it plays,
and it doesn't look complicated.


Yes, its not overly complicated. It is just that it is a bit time consuming. Also, the board starts to get cluttered. More so than though normal play.

magmaxtic wrote:
We don;t like the idea of drawing tokens every turn, so what we may do is simply draw one each time upon encountering an enemy from the adventure deck.
Or tie the drawing to a die roll(like on a one, provided we don't play with the Reaper or Werewolf figures then.Having too many triggers may slow the game down. )


Actually, that is not a bad idea. I just might have to try something like this, or similar. That is, whenever a player rolls a "1" for movement, all sorts of things happen. However, I wonder how that would offset the whole concept of the expansion?
 
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Alex F
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Triggering token drawing on a roll of one will likely make scales too scarce , which is why I think we'll key it off to enemy encounters.


If you land on a space, and encounter any enemies on it, draw a dragon token after resolving the enemy encounter(s).(regardless of whether you defeated the enemy, evaded it or not)

If you ever lose/miss a turn from any game effect before engaging at least one enemy on the space you land on, then you don't draw a token that turn.

 
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Ray
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There are some drawbacks to altering the pull of dragon scales, but more importantly, the characters most affected are those that can deal with dragons as a skill.
 
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Alex F
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So I ordered the Dragon expansion, along with Frostmarch and Sacred Pool.

We'll have more than 3 weeks to enjoy BloodMoon and Reaper in the meantime, then we'll see if we add the 150+ adventure cards from Frostmarch and Sacred Pool into the mixed deck.

I appreciate the fact that Dragon comes with its own card components, rather than adding more to existing decks, otherwise we'd have a serious card flood.
 
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Ray
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magmaxtic wrote:
So I ordered the Dragon expansion, along with Frostmarch and Sacred Pool.

We'll have more than 3 weeks to enjoy BloodMoon and Reaper in the meantime, then we'll see if we add the 150+ adventure cards from Frostmarch and Sacred Pool into the mixed deck.

I appreciate the fact that Dragon comes with its own card components, rather than adding more to existing decks, otherwise we'd have a serious card flood.


I like having a large Adventure Card deck. More the better I say. Why? So the game doesn't get stale and/or predicable.

If the deck is large enough, you might be able to play a full game of Talisman and have leftover cards when the game ends. This makes the game less predictable. That is, will such-and-such card show up or not in this game today? With a smaller deck, players had reshuffle the discards. As a result players knew that a card will come up eventually. It was just a matter of time.

Of course, with a large number of cards, you will probably need a better way to stack them:



the above picture shows a quick and simple card holder I made from one of the box inserts. Later I fabricated a stand that holds up the card holder at about 60 degree.
 
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Alex F
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That's a great storage idea!
Don't get me wrong, I love more cards.

I was only slightly worried that maybe some of the expansion decks might not have the same ratios of cards as those in Reaper and Bloodmoon,screwing up distribution of encounters by type and diluting the mixed deck.

For instance having an inordinate amount of objects/followers compared to monsters.
It's nothing that can't be fixed by some customizing but still.
 
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Elliott Eastoe
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https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/9409455/Dragon%20Expansi...

This is my take on the Dragon Rulebook. The most important rule is:

Drawing Dragon Tokens

Whenever a character draws one or more Enemies during his turn, before he encounters any cards, he must draw one dragon token at random from the pool and resolve its effect.

This is a very similar mechanic to flipping the Time Card in the Blood Moon Expansion!

Ell.
 
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