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Commands & Colors: Ancients» Forums » Variants

Subject: One sided blocks rss

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Josh Malbon
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laughMind you I haven't read the rules of C&C: Ancients yet. Nor do I own it...yet.But I really am interested in picking this up.

I've played Memoir '44 and Hammer of the Scots for my grognard experience...

So I was wondering in C&C: Ancients what if you only stickered one side of the blocks and made it like HotS with hidden units.

Would, could this work?

Has anyone tried it?

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Diz Hooper
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I think doing this would take a lot of the strategy out of this game. Certain units are better against other units and weak against other units. If you make the blocks hidden, you'll be making a lot of dumb moves.
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Guido Gloor
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The scenarios tell you exactly where to put which block - but I guess if you make each player set up their own side of the battlefield, it might work. It would remove the relatively light strategy of the game altogether though, because what troops your enemy has really is the very basis of C&C:A strategy. It's still mostly a tactical game, with all the variables you have to consider (hand composition, board position, plans of yourself and your opponent) during the game.

So I guess it's possible, but I'm not sure whether it would make sense.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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You should probably read the rules...

I'd also suggest reading the previous threads on "hidden units" or "fog of war" to see what has already been voiced by the community.

As far as stickers go... It depends on if you like playing the blocks flat or not.
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Josh Malbon
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I tried looking for others use of this idea but could not find any on my browse through the topics.

But the point on using different tactics versus different troops seems a good enough reason to sticker both sides.


Thanks for the input!
 
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You clearly can sticker only one side and play with the blocks laying flat if the "Fog of War" experiment fails.
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George Husted
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Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign, 1815 uses this method to create "fog-of-war" and no one seems to complain that it has no strategy.

What hidden units do is force players to utilize scouts and maneuver more cautiously.

However, that being said, I think that at this tactical level and at the time period being simulated, fog-of-war is not appropriate.

This is a tactical game and Armies typically lined up against each other on open fields to facilitate formation combat.

The exception to this might be units hidden behind hills or in forests that suddenly appear by charging out from behind or over the top of their concealment. They might also suddenly appear from a city or town or village in the same manner.

A better mechanic for tactical fog-of-war (IMHO) would be hidden deployment by writinng it down on a map. Units could remain hidden until bumped into or near, or until they move/attack from their hidden location.

Fog-of-war could be done with C&C Ancients, but the blocks aren't the best way to do that...again, IMHO.

Good thinking outside the box, though. It has real possibilities to have some sort of hidden deployment to achieve tactical surprise. (Another thing that could be done is to randomize the type of unit that is being hidden so your opponent won't know what is there.) Surprise is an essential part of warfare, and games that offer perfect knowledge don't allow for that factor.
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BrentS
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C&C:A already has its fog of war built into the cards. IMHO adding further fog of war with hidden units would just increase randomness and decrease strategic options, as others here have pointed out. One of the key tensions of C&C:A, and one of the things that I feel makes it a brilliant play experience, is the perfect balance of open and hidden information.....you know what units your opponent has where (as an ancient general would) but you don't know what he's capable of making them do at any given time.

Brent.
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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Coldwarrior1984 wrote:
The exception to this might be units hidden behind hills or in forests that suddenly appear by charging out from behind or over the top of their concealment. They might also suddenly appear from a city or town or village in the same manner.

A better mechanic for tactical fog-of-war (IMHO) would be hidden deployment by writinng it down on a map. Units could remain hidden until bumped into or near, or until they move/attack from their hidden location.

These situations are already covered in the special rules for scenarios in which a hidden force was in ambush. It cannot be as hidden as in the historical battle, since both players know that there is an ambush force, but I don't think there's a better way! If you are buying the base game, I think Trebia is the only "ambush" battle, in the expansions there are a few others.

However, as Coldwarrior said, in open battles without hidden forces, not knowing which unit is just in front of you could be fun, but not realistic at all. You could think of a complex system in which units 6 or whatever hexes away remain "face down" (you only know the size of the blocks), and when they get closer you turn them "face up". But this would turn a great game into a very fiddly one.
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Warren Davis
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My short version of what all these great guys said: if they were close enough to fight, they were too close to hide from each other.
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