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Subject: Eowyn's brokeness rss

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Daniel DuBois
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So is there any debate that Eowyn is by far the best hero and absolutely broken? Can we dispense with that discussion? You're either either playing fair or your playing Eowyn, IMHO.

What should Eowyn have been printed at? 13? I'm not sure there is a starting threat that makes 4 (effectively 5) willpower truly fair. In fact, at a starting threat cost of 9, it seems like she could have easily just been 3 willpower, retaining her current ability, and still been the best Spirit hero.

I think trying to balance the heros by adding up all their stats was a downright silly idea. Specialist characters won't ever be balanced properly with that algorithm.

I mean, it's a co-op game, so whatever who cares, but nevertheless, the little game designer in me finds a stark imbalance like this leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Also, I am a bit tired of playing Eowyn all the time, and I feel like I'm basically forced to do so.
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Ryan Langewisch
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Hmm, I can see where you are coming from, yet I haven't found her to be that unbalanced compared to other characters. Yes she is a questing monster, but that is it. Don't expect her to be versatile in a sticky combat situation. Also, her 3 hit points leave her extremely vulnerable. Cards like Necromancer's Reach (Especially with her questing all the time) and Evil Storm can take her out of the game leaving you feeling pretty hopeless. I would agree that she seems to be a hero that gets played a lot, but she does have her risks.
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Gabe Covert
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ddubois wrote:
Also, I am a bit tired of playing Eowyn all the time, and I feel like I'm basically forced to do so.


Yeah, 'cause Nate French is holding your family hostage...

ninja
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Derek Coon
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Thank you for posting this. I've snidely called her superwoman in a few threads, but wasn't sensing that anyone else resented her like I do. There's a saying about the Boston Marathon: You can bet on a Kenyan or you can lose. That's the way I feel about playing solo in this game: you can play Eowyn or you can lose. It's so bad I really question the amount of playtesting.

Miranda Otto should be warned that Nate French is stalking her.
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snailien
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Eowyn is absolutely not broken. The only thing she can really do is quest and you need someone to quest every round in almost all situations. She fits the bill, but that's all she's really good for. It's not like she can defend, attack, and quest all in the same round. That would be pretty broken.

If you feel like you're forced to play Eowyn solo, then it's probably not because she's broken. It's probably because there are so few heroes that aren't bad at questing. The way you say it, it makes it sound more like the game, rather than Eowyn, is broken.
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Bart Rachemoss
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I agree that Eowyn is the best hero in the game so far but I wouldn't call her broken. Since every core set has one Eowyn, it's not like you've got to buy hundreds of booster packs to get a copy.

For me, broken means it seriously degrades the play experience. Usually this will eventually cause either a rule change or cause the card to be banned or amended.

I'm not trying to dictate how you feel, I'm just curious. Do you really feel that Eowyn significantly degrades your playing experience? Some cards are always going to be stronger than others.
 
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Patrick Leacock
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If you say that Eowyn is broken then you have to say that Gandalf is super broken. Anyone here play without 1, 2, or 3 of the Gandalf cards?
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Derek Coon
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Yes, I do feel that having to play Eowyn does degrade the playing experience. So much so that I resent it and have stopped playing. I can play a stock Spirit deck with Eowyn and two heros no one has ever heard of and they will kick the three hunters (with the best custom deck possible) to the curb. Rediculous. I've stopped playing and buying expansions.

I'm fine with not being able to beat every scenario solo. I would have liked the scaling to be a little better, but I agree that 6 heros should be able to accomplish more than 3.

For me, saying Eowyn is broken and the game is broken because you have to play Eowyn are nearly the same thing. I do think that the game is too questing/spirit biased though. Yes Eowyn is only good at one thing, but it's the most important thing in the game turn in and turn out.
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Daniel DuBois
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snailien wrote:
The only thing she can really do is quest

That might be a drawback if...
Quote:
and you need someone to quest every round in almost all situations

... wasn't true.

She doesn't just "do" questing; she's absurd at it -- and it's something you do EVERY turn. At least Legolas' almost-too-strong attack can get screwed when there are no monsters to fight.

I know there's always going to be cards better than others, but obviously there's a limit to that argument. Would you be OK if the next set had an ally card that cost 1 leadership, and had 3/2/2/5 stats? Of course not. You'd feel like you had to put 3 in every deck if you wanted to maximize (or come anywhere close to) your chances of winning.

When one card is soooo much better than the rest then, it reduces the creativity a deck-builder can express. (Again, assuming they aren't willing to totally blow off their win rate. Obviously, no one has a gun to my head forcing me to play the best cards.)
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Derek Coon
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Sylvicolus wrote:
If you say that Eowyn is broken then you have to say that Gandalf is super broken. Anyone here play without 1, 2, or 3 of the Gandalf cards?

You have a point about Gandalf, but that's for another thread. (I was shocked when they allowed his ability to work with Sneak Attack though.)
 
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Bart Rachemoss
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Sylvicolus wrote:
If you say that Eowyn is broken then you have to say that Gandalf is super broken. Anyone here play without 1, 2, or 3 of the Gandalf cards?

I used a 2-core three sphere deck for questing down the Anduin. It got so easy, I took out all copies of Gandalf and all copies of Banks of the Anduin. It was still pretty easy.
 
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Brent Mair
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Yet another broken use of the word "broken".
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Kirk Taylor
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I know this makes no difference to your opinion. Which I do respect. I just wanted to say that aside from the first time I played an all spirit deck I have never used Eowyn in any of my constructed decks until last night. I favour using my allies for almost all my questing power. I usually play spirit in my deck and find my favourite hero is Eleanor - her ability is invaluable in a solo game. I feel that I do very well at the game.

The only reason I used her last night was because I have started doing theme decks and she was part of my Rohan Riders deck.

On the topic of brokenness I would say "Faramir" is absurdly powerful and easily generates more questing power than Eowyn with far less risk attached to doing so as he doesn't actually quest when boosting those that do quest. With enough allies out I have easily generated more than twenty quest points.
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Matt Elias
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I agree with you that I'm tired of people always using Eowyn, but I don't blame the designers for that, or Eowyn for that matter! I just choose not to use her when I don't want to, damn the consequences! We all have a choice. I basically try not to use the same characters 2x in a row when I play, I change it up almost every time, that's what keeps it fun for me.

Just say NO... to repetitive strategies!
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Markus Unger
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Is Eowyn a great and easy spolution for questing? Yes.
Is she the only option if you need willpower? No.
Will she remain the (arguably) best questing option in the future? Probably not.

People tend to forget that The Lord Of The Rings is an LCG and we'll see other viable options, be it allies, heroes or other card combos that can be used to effectively quest. Until we have a solid card base (which will not happen before the first deluxe expansion) a card like Eowyn will be strong because there are simply no other options if you're looking for a specific solution (here: high willpower heroes). With variety comes alternatives, but that will take some time.
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Jason Hidahl
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It's still fun for me. To each his own, some say.

Ceasing to play with Eowyn is ever an option. You can try any other combo of heroes you prefer instead and any deck you prefer to accompany them.

This game is flexible, allowing and encouraging players to customize their play-experience. Those who aren't flexible to match the game are limiting their own options and have their own rigid mindsets to blame before the game itself.

This game is expanding. It's developers are creating more player cards and scenarios. More player cards increase players' options when assembling decks, obviously (providing they're open to customization), and new scenarios may move the focus among quest-based or combat-based challenges or some other mechanic introduced specifically for a certain scenario. Different challenges may require different teams/tools with which to tackle them.

No one must obsess over Eowyn. She's pretty, but if she isn't treating you right or if your relationship is getting too monotonous, then it may be time for you to let her go.
 
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Cracky McCracken
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My wife's cat is named Eowyn and she is the dumbest animal i have ever known. So having an Eowyn in my life who's actually good at something for once has been a treat.
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No No No Sheep
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Cracky wrote:
My wife's cat is named Eowyn and she is the dumbest animal i have ever known. So having an Eowyn in my life who's actually good at something for once has been a treat.


your cat disappear a lot to 'quest' ?
 
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Cracky McCracken
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No, she's too dumb to go outside. Willpower = 0. She chews on my guitar cables instead (and attacks wargames)
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Richard Morris
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Cracky wrote:
No, she's too dumb to go outside. Willpower = 0. She chews on my guitar cables instead (and attacks wargames)
So plug the guitar in ...
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Cedric Jean-Marie
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I would argue Aragorn as the best hero of the game. Pair him up with that spirit stone, the one that gives him +2 wisdom and make his resources count as spirit resources as well and you've got a hero who is a lot better than Eowyn at questing simply because he can pay a resource and also serve at defense or attack as he's strong in both. Add steward of gondor and now you have a powerhouse.
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Troy Adlington
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Aragorn is by Far the Best!!

I just had him in a game as a 4 Willpower 5 Attack 4 Defense Uber-Mensch Who was happily Questing, Defending and Attacking EVERY turn, pulling Three resources and spending them in 2 spheres!
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Tom Hancock
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Eowyn is probably the best questing character in the core set. I don't think she is so unbalanced as to be broken. Thats silly.
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Tristan Hall
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Eowyn is easily the best Hero.
In the Spirit deck.
In the core set.
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Chris Ferejohn
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Troymk1 wrote:
Aragorn is by Far the Best!!

I just had him in a game as a 4 Willpower 5 Attack 4 Defense Uber-Mensch Who was happily Questing, Defending and Attacking EVERY turn, pulling Three resources and spending them in 2 spheres!


At most he could be Questing plus either attacking *or* defending. And if he's doing that he only nets 2 resource. Also, that's not Aragorn, that's Aragorn plus like 5 other cards, so if you're going to compare Eowyn, compare Eowyn + the same number of attachment boosts...
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