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Subject: BGG Hall of Fame - Final Voting 2011 rss

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Here are the final nominees for the BGG Hall of Fame.

If you don't know what the Hall of Fame is, you can look at it here: BGG Hall of Fame.

You may also find the subscription thread useful to keep abreast of BGG Hall of Fame happenings: BGG Hall of Fame Subscription Thread.

The standard for induction is historical significance and noteworthiness. For more details, please read our mission statement:

”Mission Statement” wrote:
The games in the BGG Hall of Fame are recognized for being noteworthy and historically significant to board games. Many of the games on this list are great games, but beyond that, they are games which are important and influential. They are the groundbreakers and innovators and even when newer, shinier games catch our fancy, we cannot deny that these games formed the building blocks of our hobby.

To be eligible for the BGG Hall of Fame, a game must be at least ten years old. The voting process is held once a year and is open to the entire BGG community. Currently, a game must be considered Hall of Fame-worthy by two-thirds of voters to be inducted.


All BGG users are eligible to vote. A game must achieve two-thirds yes votes (disregarding abstentions) to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Please abstain if you don't feel qualified to judge a game.

Any games not inducted this year will still be eligible to be inducted next year.

For those who are unsure of what to vote for, we suggest voting Yes to 8-10 games. This is just a rough suggestion - please vote for more or fewer games depending on how many games you think are deserving.

The poll will close automatically at midnight between Tuesday, September 6 and Wednesday, September 7.

Poll
Should the following games be inducted into the BGG Hall of Fame?
  Yes No Abstain Vote Count
Advanced Squad Leader 43.8% (210) 23.1% (111) 33.1% (159) 480
Axis & Allies 47.1% (225) 33.7% (161) 19.2% (92) 478
Backgammon 52.0% (252) 34.6% (168) 13.4% (65) 485
Bohnanza 20.8% (99) 62.9% (300) 16.4% (78) 477
Bridge 45.3% (217) 34.0% (163) 20.7% (99) 479
Civilization 49.2% (236) 26.9% (129) 24.0% (115) 480
Clue 49.9% (241) 42.4% (205) 7.7% (37) 483
Cosmic Encounter 43.8% (209) 35.2% (168) 21.0% (100) 477
Cribbage 28.5% (134) 51.5% (242) 20.0% (94) 470
El Grande 35.4% (166) 42.6% (200) 22.0% (103) 469
HeroQuest 24.8% (117) 53.9% (254) 21.2% (100) 471
Lost Cities 14.0% (66) 72.0% (340) 14.0% (66) 472
Monopoly 59.7% (295) 35.2% (174) 5.1% (25) 494
Poker 39.5% (190) 52.0% (250) 8.5% (41) 481
Ra 21.9% (104) 58.4% (277) 19.6% (93) 474
Risk 66.8% (328) 28.3% (139) 4.9% (24) 491
Scrabble 61.3% (299) 31.4% (153) 7.4% (36) 488
Stratego 39.7% (190) 48.9% (234) 11.5% (55) 479
Tigris & Euphrates 31.0% (148) 46.7% (223) 22.4% (107) 478
Trivial Pursuit 34.0% (162) 58.6% (279) 7.4% (35) 476
Total Voters 519
This poll is now closed.   519 answers
Poll created by BGG Hall of Fame
Closes: Wed Sep 7, 2011 6:00 am
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First of all, an announcement to make. There has been plenty of discussion on this in the thread, but we have decided to induct a minimum of two games every year. If more than two games in a given year meet the 2/3 threshold, then they all get in. But, as it is, two games are guaranteed to get in. This was based on the idea that the Hall of Fame would grow stale if things were not inducted. There were people who felt strongly on both sides of the issue. But in the end, those who were in favor of allowing more games in won out. The decision is summarized here, though there is discussion about it throughout the thread.

Here are the final voting percentages:

Risk 70.24%
Scrabble 66.15%
Advanced Squad Leader 65.42%
Civilization 64.66%
Monopoly 62.90%
Backgammon 60.00%
Axis & Allies 58.29%
Bridge 57.11%
Cosmic Encounter 55.44%
Clue 54.04%
El Grande 45.36%
Stratego 44.81%
Poker 43.18%
Tigris & Euphrates 39.89%
Trivial Pursuit 36.73%
Cribbage 35.64%
HeroQuest 31.54%
Ra 27.30%
Bohnanza 24.81%
Lost Cities 16.26%

Congratulations to our new inductees: Risk and Scrabble! Two classic games and fine additions to the Hall of Fame. I will post in the subscription thread after blurbs have been written for these games.
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And now, for a less controversial announcement. I was trying to find a way to determine what games would stay on the nomination list from year to year. I have decided to carry exactly 70 games forward from the previous year to automatically be nominated again. Plus, the five games with the most votes from the newly eligible year will be automatically nominated. Of course, BGG users can always nominate and renominate games to add to the list. That way the number of games is stable, and the thumbs for games towards the bottom of the list actually mean something.

Here are the games that will be on the nomination list next year:

Axis & Allies
Civilization
Monopoly
Cosmic Encounter
El Grande
Backgammon
Advanced Squad Leader
Stratego
Clue
Tigris & Euphrates
Poker
Bohnanza
Trivial Pursuit
HeroQuest
Ra
Cribbage
Bridge
Lost Cities
Citadels
RoboRally
Dune
Mahjong
Crokinole
Checkers
Scotland Yard
Can't Stop
Legend of the Five Rings
Survive!
1830
Die Macher
Werewolf
Talisman
Yahtzee
Tichu
Formula De
Lord of the Rings
Hive
Magic Realm
Squad Leader
We the People
Tactics
Mancala
Dominoes
Titan
Apples to Apples
Princes of Florence
Blokus
PanzerBlitz
Pit
Samurai
Strat-O-Matic Baseball
Blood Bowl
Merchant of Venus
Tikal
BattleTech
Othello
1829
Pachisi
Empire Builder
Hare & Tortoise
Careers
Up Front
Game of Life
Paths of Glory
Shogi
Warhammer Fantasy Battle
Boggle
Nine Men's Morris
Gettysburg
Rise and Decline of the Third Reich

And the five games from 2002:

Puerto Rico
Bang!
Carcassonne: Hunters & Gatherers
Pirate's Cove
Age of Steam

It should be an interesting year next year, as I know Pirate's Cove has a lot of vocal fans.

Here are the games being dropped from the nominations (for the curious). People can nominate them again next year, though the chances of them getting in will probably be slim:

TransAmerica
Genoa
Wiz-War
San Marco
Munchkin
Kill Doctor Lucky
Star Wars CCG
Mage Knight
DVONN
I'm the Boss!
Catan Card Game
Hex
Zombies!!!
Heimlich & Co.
Medina
Scum
Zheng Fen
Halma
Pampas Railroads
Fortune
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Rishi A.
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If you want to talk about individual nominees, feel free to do so here. Also, there's already a lot of great discussion on many of these games on the nominees GeekList: BGG Hall of Fame 2011 Nominees

You may post now, if you wish.
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Ian McCarthy
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Pretty cool, thanks for doing this.
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Guido Van Horn
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I know it's super early in the voting, but I'm surpised some the games that had strong nomination showings are starting off so poorly.
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Wargames will ALWAYS get short shrift when polling goes to the general membership.
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BGG Hall of Fame wrote:
The games in the BGG Hall of Fame are recognized for being noteworthy and historically significant to board games. Many of the games on this list are great games, but beyond that, they are games which are important and influential. They are the groundbreakers and innovators and even when newer, shinier games catch our fancy, we cannot deny that these games formed the building blocks of our hobby.

To be eligible for the BGG Hall of Fame, a game must be at least ten years old. The voting process is held once a year and is open to the entire BGG community. Currently, a game must be considered Hall of Fame-worthy by two-thirds of voters to be inducted.


Quote:
For those who are unsure of what to vote for, we suggest voting Yes to 8-10 games. This is just a rough suggestion - please vote for more or fewer games depending on how many games you think are deserving.


I voted for 5. One I wasn't sure of. There might be 3 or 4 games on that list that meet the criteria of being both noteworthy and historically significant to board gaming.
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NateStraight wrote:
BGG Hall of Fame wrote:
The games in the BGG Hall of Fame are recognized for being noteworthy and historically significant to board games. Many of the games on this list are great games, but beyond that, they are games which are important and influential. They are the groundbreakers and innovators and even when newer, shinier games catch our fancy, we cannot deny that these games formed the building blocks of our hobby.

To be eligible for the BGG Hall of Fame, a game must be at least ten years old. The voting process is held once a year and is open to the entire BGG community. Currently, a game must be considered Hall of Fame-worthy by two-thirds of voters to be inducted.


Quote:
For those who are unsure of what to vote for, we suggest voting Yes to 8-10 games. This is just a rough suggestion - please vote for more or fewer games depending on how many games you think are deserving.


I voted for 5. One I wasn't sure of. There might be 3 or 4 games on that list that meet the criteria of being both noteworthy and historically significant to board gaming.

In the interest of discussion, which did you vote for?
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Guido Van Horn
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NateStraight wrote:
BGG Hall of Fame wrote:
The games in the BGG Hall of Fame are recognized for being noteworthy and historically significant to board games. Many of the games on this list are great games, but beyond that, they are games which are important and influential. They are the groundbreakers and innovators and even when newer, shinier games catch our fancy, we cannot deny that these games formed the building blocks of our hobby.

To be eligible for the BGG Hall of Fame, a game must be at least ten years old. The voting process is held once a year and is open to the entire BGG community. Currently, a game must be considered Hall of Fame-worthy by two-thirds of voters to be inducted.


Quote:
For those who are unsure of what to vote for, we suggest voting Yes to 8-10 games. This is just a rough suggestion - please vote for more or fewer games depending on how many games you think are deserving.


I voted for 5. One I wasn't sure of. There might be 3 or 4 games on that list that meet the criteria of being both noteworthy and historically significant to board gaming.


there's maybe 3 or 4 that aren't noteworthy and historically significant.
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Escher0 wrote:
In the interest of discussion, which did you vote for?


Advanced Squad Leader, Backgammon, Bridge, Civilization, and Monopoly. Risk is a "maybe include". ASL and Civ were my "maybe excludes".

For reasons of the way it is played / viewed, Poker doesn't seem to be BGG hall of fame material, though as an entry to a generic "games" hall of fame, sure.

Scrabble, Trivial Pursuit, even Clue and Stratego seem much too generic within their genres [as compared to a pinnacle game like Bridge] to be of historical import.

Additionally, none of them are seminal [in the way that perhaps Risk is], but are rather offshoots of a seminal genre ["words", "trivia", etc], making them not very noteworthy.

Seems "noteworthy and historically significant" should entail something that dramatically captured the attention of players and changed the way the entirety of gaming was perceived by players.

That Bridge isn't leading the poll and that Monopoly has a single "no" vote is really rather ridiculous, if you ask me. No other games on the list so comprehensively embody gaming as an end unto itself.

None of the "modern" games on the list deserve to sit aside the current crop: Acquire, Carcassonne, Chess, Diplomacy, Go, Magic, and Settlers [a remarkably well chosen inaugural set, so kudos for last year's voters].
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My board game history is rusty, but isn't Stratego like... the Grandfather of block war games?
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tscook wrote:
Cosmic Encounter is obviously noteworthy and historically significant.


I hesitated. I think I'd probably file it under the same "maybe" category that I shoved Civ into [the difference is that I think Civ is genuinely a great game and I no longer think Cosmic is, thus my vote], as being potentially an influence on something truly seminal / noteworthy [in Civ's case, the tenuous link to the Civ computer game which is what I think should really be included; in Cosmic's case, the tenuous link to Magic] but potentially not being anything of particular interest on its own merits.

We wouldn't include Chaturaji in the list just because Chess is, would we? [Or Pachisi just because Backgammon is, should Backgammon make the cut. Or Whist just because Bridge is, should Bridge make it. Etc.]
 
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eekamouse wrote:
My board game history is rusty, but isn't Stratego like... the Grandfather of block war games?


Not all grandfathers are noteworthy, despite all being historically significant.
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NateStraight wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
My board game history is rusty, but isn't Stratego like... the Grandfather of block war games?


Not all grandfathers are noteworthy, despite all being historically significant.


"Democracy... pfft!"
 
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eekamouse wrote:
NateStraight wrote:
eekamouse wrote:
My board game history is rusty, but isn't Stratego like... the Grandfather of block war games?


Not all grandfathers are noteworthy, despite all being historically significant.


"Democracy... pfft!"


Perhaps a better phrasing would be "not all grandfathers are generally noteworthy [outside of their own family]".
 
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tscook wrote:
CE could've been just Diplomacy in two hours, but instead introduced variable player powers, anti-bash the leader mechanics, etc. to make something much greater than its parts.


If I thought the end result worked, I would have voted for it.

I no longer really think the sum is greater than the parts, though I still think the game is fun to play.

Obviously this isn't objective and others will feel differently, but eventually that's what a hall of fame vote is anyway, a subjective metric of some presumed-to-be objective quality.
 
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I'm astonished Nate. Suggesting that Trivial Pursuit is not noteworthy is inconceivable to me. It launched the party game genre in a commercial sense and was hugely popular for decades. If there were any three games you could bet on being in any given middle class household through the last few decades of the 20th Century they were Monopoly, Scrabble and Trivial Pursuit.

If we maintain your attitude toward being noteworthy or having historical significance we might as well stop voting now as it's not going to grow much from where we're already at.
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Jugular wrote:
I'm astonished Nate. Suggesting that Trivial Pursuit is not noteworthy is inconceivable to me. It launched the party game genre in a commercial sense and was hugely popular for decades. If there were any three games you could bet on being in any given middle class household through the last few decades of the 20th Century they were Monopoly, Scrabble and Trivial Pursuit.

If we maintain your attitude toward being noteworthy or having historical significance we might as well stop voting now as it's not going to grow much from where we're already at.
Nate seems to be reading the criteria as being both historically significant AND noteworthy. English can be a wonderfully ambiguous language, but I have always read the criteria to mean either historically significant OR noteworthy (or both), despite the 'and' in the stated standard.
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What I want to know is what the other option (other than abstain) is that some people obviously require. Even with an abstain option, we have folks not putting any sort of vote against some games.
 
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Jugular wrote:
I'm astonished Nate. Suggesting that Trivial Pursuit is not noteworthy is inconceivable to me. It launched the party game genre in a commercial sense and was hugely popular for decades. If there were any three games you could bet on being in any given middle class household through the last few decades of the 20th Century they were Monopoly, Scrabble and Trivial Pursuit.

If we maintain your attitude toward being noteworthy or having historical significance we might as well stop voting now as it's not going to grow much from where we're already at.


You're right. I'm changing my vote on trivial pursuit. I even put a few tokens into the Trivial Pursuit arcade game in the 80's, for Pete's sake!
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AnnuverScotinExile wrote:
What I want to know is what the other option (other than abstain) is that some people obviously require. Even with an abstain option, we have folks not putting any sort of vote against some games.

I do not even understand why there's an "abstain" option... that is, if I'm going to abstain, I just do not vote (isn't it what "abstain" means?).
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With 103 votes in there are only two inductees ... CE and Civilization.


edit: took another look at the results ...





 
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In case you accidentally click a yes or no option, there needs to be abstain as an option to undo the click
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InfoCynic wrote:
In case you accidentally click a yes or no option, there needs to be abstain as an option to undo the click


Plus, some people feel like they HAVE TO click something on every line.
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