Wayne Harding
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Here's the deal.
The 'Rain of Colorless Fire' is an event card for Karkoth. It states to roll D12 on an enemy space to the count of pieces in it. Ok there are about 6 pieces including one dragon. The roll causes 3 wounds. I take out 2 foot solders and place the third wound on the dragon.
The Argument.
The rules state that at the end of the battle the wounded dragon then heals. The question is, is this considered a battle? Does the dragon stay wounded? In every other case the dragon would heal when the battle was over or in this case, an event.
My take.
There is a hole here to be debated. I think that after any kind of an attack, battle or event, if the dragon survives he heals. But as I said the rules quote at the end of a battle.
Any feedback and clarification would be most welcome.
Great Game
Wayne
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James Adrian
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I think the dragon should be damaged if that dragon is going to be in any kind of combat this turn. He can heal after the battle. If there is no battle for this dragon, then it heals at the end of the turn.
That's just my opinion, though. Perhaps there is an official ruling on this somewhere?
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Wayne Harding
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Is there any ruling out there or anyone elses take on this?
 
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Vayda
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This is answered by the timing on the card. When exactly does it get played?

If it says play the event at the start of a battle, then yes the dragon is wounded for the rest of the upcoming battle.

Of it says play before an attack then I would argue the dragon would not start a new battle damaged.
 
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Wayne Harding
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But saying he heals after the end of the turn is like saying he heals after an event, its not in the rules. The rules state after a battle. Until he is ever engaged in battle he will always have one wound. I'm not sure the designers intended this. Nice to have a designers take on this!
Wayne
 
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Wayne Harding
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Play during the Draw step
 
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Vayda
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Okay I found the card. It states to play during your draw step.

This is a phase based game. Draw, move, fight battles, reposition, reinforce, collect income.

The question for debate is if the damage carried phase to phase.
Seeing as how damage is instantaneous and all units are destroyed by 1 poit (except dragons) I'd argue that damage was not intended to carry over through the phases.

Durable in the glossary says, "it takes 2 damage to destroy". So IMO if you deal two damage in one phase the dragon dies. If not it heals for the next phase.
 
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Wayne Harding
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This was my original thought. But got the debate that on the draw phase the card did not cause a battle just damage. So if the dragon never engages battle to the end of the turn, does he always only have one wound?
Sorry doesn't make sense to me
Wayne
 
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Vayda
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I agree, it seems troublesome and counter-intuitive to have to manage when each dragon got hit in which phases. If that was the case we should have been supplied with phase markers and damage tokens.

As for "damage" and not a "battle".... moving into unguarded enemy territory starts a battle even if no one is there to fight. So why then could an event card not be considered a battle- esp since you are directly attacking units with dice?

Until an official ruling is voiced- consider house ruling on simpler is better. 2 damage in 1 phase or the dragon lives. Esp since the durable glossary entry and dragon entry do not share the same text.This debate could go on a long time.

The dragon is a nice offset to cards like that. You see a force ready to go soon, and wham- they lose a bunch of units. Absorbing 1 hit with a dragon isn't the end of the world. The force is still weakened. Game goes on.

If the players really want to kill dragons, they should slip the event cards up their sleeves that hurt dragons during combat. This way there is no debate
 
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Vayda
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To be fair, I asked one of the gamers at my table, his response:

"I would disagree. I would say that the dragon is injured entering any new combats for that turn and would then heal at the end of the turn. And it's not hard to keep track of an injured dragon for this case, since all you have to do is flip it over. And there aren't many cases where you can injure a dragon over the various phases, so that doesn't matter either. However, the event card does not initiate a battle, it is merely causing the troops to rot away, therefore, the dragon has been affected by rot for that turn of play, if he survives, he recovers from the rot. If not he was weakened by the rot making him easier to kill. Although this does seem like a small loophole in the game, I still think the damage carries over between phases."


Let us look at the actual game:
Player 1 (Karkoth) plays this card during her draw step and damages one of player 4 (Nerath's) dragons.
It is a delay tactic to put off being attacked on two fronts. Karkoth now focuses on Vailin for attacks, not having any battles with Nerath.
Player 4's dragon is now wounded for the rest of Player 1's turn, all of player's 2 turn, all of player 3's turn, and half of player 4's turn(until end of the battle phase).

Feel right to you?
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Rea Hederman

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sirjeyhmis wrote:
I think the dragon should be damaged if that dragon is going to be in any kind of combat this turn. He can heal after the battle. If there is no battle for this dragon, then it heals at the end of the turn.
That's just my opinion, though. Perhaps there is an official ruling on this somewhere?



This is the way I'd play it. Dragons are plenty powerful enough already w/o being able to completely offset other card effects. Healing every phase is pretty awesome. I'd carry the damage over for any battle fought during this immediate turn till it heals after the battle stage.

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Mike
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virferrorum wrote:
To be fair, I asked one of the gamers at my table, his response:

Let us look at the actual game:
Player 1 (Karkoth) plays this card during her draw step and damages one of player 4 (Nerath's) dragons.
It is a delay tactic to put off being attacked on two fronts. Karkoth now focuses on Vailin for attacks, not having any battles with Nerath.
Player 4's dragon is now wounded for the rest of Player 1's turn, all of player's 2 turn, all of player 3's turn, and half of player 4's turn(until end of the battle phase).

Feel right to you?

Sounds perfect to me.
 
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Wayne Harding
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But again the argument came up that in the rules the dragon only heals at the end of the battle. What if the dragon never enters battle through the end of the round. Then the dragon would enter the next round still wounded. You can't place a rule that it heals at the end of the round if you can't place the rule it heals at the end of the event or phase. They are indeed attacked by a rain of fire from the enemy not just rot. A DESIGNERS RULING WOULD BE GREAT HERE!
I see both sides but it seems to me to keep the wound creates more complication then needed. I like the KISS rule. Keep It Simple
 
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Mike
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I think what Vayda had going was that the dragon would heal at the end of Nerath's battle phase. Weither or not that dragon was involved in a battle. Just at the end of that players phase that (and I guess all other) wounded dragon(s) heal.
 
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Wayne Harding
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I understand what Vayda is saying that after the round is over (after Nerath's turn) all wounded dragons heal, but this is not what is in the rules. I guess all I am after is an official ruling from the designers. Are the dragons designed to heal after it takes wounds from battle or any other event, like an event card? Where the argument is coming from is that the event card is not an official battle, according to the rules, and dragons only heal after the 'battle' is over.
It still sounds goofy to me that a dragon was designed to absorb one wound in an attack yet a technicality like wounds from an event card nulls this ability. I really don't think the designers designed the dragons this way, but I will change my thinking if I can get an official opinion from a designer. PLEASE
Wayne
 
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Wayne Harding
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FYI
I just got an official ruling from The Wizards of the Coast on this.
The Dragon will heal after it takes damage from any battle or event card.
Sorry to be so persistent on this one but it bugged me.
Wayne
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Mike
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Ok, thanks Wayne. AT least that's cleared up.
 
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