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Descent: The Sea of Blood» Forums » General

Subject: Dungeon #47 exploitably broken? rss

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Guy Moody
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having run through only one session so far, my party and i have run into one staggeringly exploitable "Broken" quest... after giving the other dungeon cards and layouts a peek-through, it seems to be the only one that has such a glaring oversight left in.

Madame Marlowes wax museum quest 47.

in addition to being nearly imposible when a starting party happens to be unlucky enugh to have this dungeon drawn as their first level (walking the land path so no island outdoor first), haveing a master ogre with 15 extra helth and 6 armor, the party was only able to deal a single point of damage to her before relizeing it was hopeless and retreating (the chest rolled 0 copper treasures aswell, dashing the one hope of gaining better DPS)

however, that is not the thing that REALY makes this quest broken. the area power regarding the statues, giveing the OL the power to turn any statue on map into a normal skeleton once per turn.... or vice versa.

the turning normal skeletons into statues is a teribly exploitable use, as there is no time-designation on the conversion, its perfectly posible for, in two turns time, the overlord to seal off the exit portal with skeletons turned statues.

further, if the heroes fail to rush into the main room, the ogre has the capacity to dash up and block them from entering the main room, allowing the OL to, with slightly more time and effort... but with the teribly dificult to kill leader, plenty of time... the capacity to seal away the whole of the dungeon floor, preventing even the coinpiles, chest, or second glyph from being "blitzed"

all in all, simply a bad dungeon, when compaired to all the others this is the only one that can be so easily twinked by an OL into being hopeless for the heros, potentialy robbing them of a rumor deeper in the dungeon
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duhtch
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cry more... you know they have this mechanic in this advanced campaign thingy, it is called fleeing.

in this game, the OL actually has a chance to win the game
 
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Guy Moody
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did i mention i was the OL in that setup?

im not a complaining hero, im a concerned OL.

the capacity to seal off a hallway is something the game has done everything in its power to prevent at every single other opertunaty, the fact that its posible here seems like a TREMENDOUS oversight.

im trying to get it out there, since, after searching both this forum and the FFG one, this issue has not been reported before.

if your not being constructive and just calling QQ on this, please think twice before replying.
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duhtch
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there is no issue, that is the problem. you think it is broken, it is not.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Fistofglee wrote:
having run through only one session so far, my party and i have run into one staggeringly exploitable "Broken" quest... after giving the other dungeon cards and layouts a peek-through, it seems to be the only one that has such a glaring oversight left in.

Madame Marlowes wax museum quest 47.

in addition to being nearly imposible when a starting party happens to be unlucky enugh to have this dungeon drawn as their first level (walking the land path so no island outdoor first), haveing a master ogre with 15 extra helth and 6 armor, the party was only able to deal a single point of damage to her before relizeing it was hopeless and retreating (the chest rolled 0 copper treasures aswell, dashing the one hope of gaining better DPS)


Yep, tough shit. There are some tough bosses out there. Heroes need to pay close attention to their DPS potential in their choices of starting heroes, skills and equipment. If your party was only able to get a single hit with as much as 7 points of damage/pierce, including potential use of potions and fatigue, then they probably haven't done that.
And they lucked out at the market I assume.
Lots of people get sucked into the 'cool' skills and abilities. Damage matters more at the start.

And yes, some dungeons are just better fled from at certain times. (Although not usually this one - there are a bunch of others that are much worse).

FWIW this particular dungeon has generally been one of the easiest for us in at least 3 different playthroughs, including one that was very early on in the campaign (I don't recall if it was first dungeon or not).

Quote:
however, that is not the thing that REALY makes this quest broken. the area power regarding the statues, giveing the OL the power to turn any statue on map into a normal skeleton once per turn.... or vice versa.

the turning normal skeletons into statues is a teribly exploitable use, as there is no time-designation on the conversion, its perfectly posible for, in two turns time, the overlord to seal off the exit portal with skeletons turned statues.


That would be 4 turns (2 statue->skeleton, 2 skeleton-> statue), although maybe there is a skeleton option in the starting monsters choices I guess.
And it happens to be illegal to completely block something off. That second skeleton->statue choice is not allowed if it will seal off any part of the dungeon (see below).

Not to mention that skeletons are extremely easy to kill while they are not-statues. So you should have several turns worth of opportunities to stop such a move.

Quote:
further, if the heroes fail to rush into the main room, the ogre has the capacity to dash up and block them from entering the main room, allowing the OL to, with slightly more time and effort... but with the teribly dificult to kill leader, plenty of time... the capacity to seal away the whole of the dungeon floor, preventing even the coinpiles, chest, or second glyph from being "blitzed"


Well, don't fail to rush the main room! Or at least get enough heroes into position to block the ogre from sealing off the room.

With all due respect, aside from one illegal play on turn 4, what you are complaining about is bad hero choices and tactics, compunded by good OL fortune (starting Charge card), not bad dungeon design.
Go read the cover. It is an Advanced Campaign. If you make poor choices, you will often get punished.

Quote:
all in all, simply a bad dungeon, when compaired to all the others this is the only one that can be so easily twinked by an OL into being hopeless for the heros, potentialy robbing them of a rumor deeper in the dungeon


Nope, that part is illegal already. Although, to be fair, it is not spelled out clearly anywhere in the rules, GLOAQ or FAQ.
The OL is not allowed to seal off any part of the dungeon to prevent the heroes progressing.
FAQ pg15
Q: Which map items count as obstacles for the Crushing
Block trap card?
A: Crushing Block may never be played in a space adjacent to a pit or any token (or built-in map element) that blocks movement. The reason for this is to prevent the Overlord from sealing a hallway completely and preventing the heroes from ever progressing. This is a list of all relevant obstacles, current through the Road to Legend: Boulder, Crushing Wall, Rubble, Water. (Villagers are figures, not map elements.)


FAQ pg13
Dungeon Level 14: The Fountain of Life
If an invulnerable monster blocks a path, the heroes may move through that monster.


Now neither of those rules explicitly apply to the situation as the skeleton->statue is not a crushing block, but the principle behind the rule is clearly stated and demonstrated again with the second rule about an invulnerable monster.

I suspect it's never come up before for this level because groups that are smart enough to think of moving the statues to block off the route are usually smart enough to have little difficulty in killing the statues while they are in skeleton form.
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