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Subject: Role Cards rss

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Nathan Burg
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I am very interested in this game but after reading the roles cards I am worried about issues that might sour the game for me. I hate playing games with gotcha cards so I am naturally concerned that this might be a factor in this game with the role cards.

The random distribution of the cards could be a big issue that lop-sides the game before it begins. The drafting mechanic for selection helps mitigate this issue but how well has this worked out in play-testing?

Do you have enough information / options when playing to help overcome another player with a lucky set of cards or overcome your own bad luck?

Why does the lowest card determine the first player but the order after that is clockwise around the table instead of continuing to use the role card numbers? For example, if I play the highest valued card but I sit to the left of the lowest card, not only do I get to make actions early than everyone other than the first player but I have the most powerful special power.

Are the special powers not as big a concerned than I am inferring from the rules?

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from play testers on this issue in making up my mind about backing this game. Thanks in advance.
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Hi Nathan...Thanks for the thread and the questions.

Isaias, the game's designer, and Drew, the design consultant, are both on BGG frequently, so I hope that they will chime in with some feedback.

From my own play testing, I've found that, for the most part, the role cards give you opportunities but do not guarantee points or advantages. A lot of their power rests on your ability to take advantage of the evolving city.

As our funding campaign on Kickstarter progresses, I plan to examine the cards and their features through the project updates. I'd love to have your opinions there (and here too). Sunrise city has been play tested a lot, but we are not deaf to the opinions of our fans and backers.
 
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Isaias Vallejo
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Nathan -

Thanks for posting your concerns. It's good to see some valid and well thought out concerns.

As David noted, its not just about the powers but how and when you use them that matter. Our main game feature is the Score Tracker and how player's can accumulate points. It's not the best strategy to get as many points as possible - it's more about hitting exact points when you lay down buildings or get other bonus points.

Also, a power may be really, really good - but is it good for that round or a particular situation? This isn't a game for muscling your way to a win, it's more about making the right choices at the right time.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have more questions or concerns.
 
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Marc Specter
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Nathan, let me begin by saying that I have playtested Sunrise City about q/w dozen times. I have no personal stake in the success of the game. Without reservation I concur with David's and Isaias's opinions.

No role power in a given round is going to allow one player to run away with the game. It really should come down to executing a role at a time, and how that role will interact with the role(s) and power(s) of the other player(s).

Because you won't know until the given round what other players have drafted, you won't be able to fully plan for it. So your best course will be to choose your role based on the board and play from there.

Good luck. I will be Kickstarting this myself soon.
 
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Nathan Burg
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Thanks for the quick replies to my questions. After reviewing the role cards again and reading your responses I think you have address most of my concerns; however, it still seems like there are 3 cards that can be very disruptive to other players. Engineer, Tycoon and Lawyer.

The Engineer could in theory grab a building tile that contains a mixed-use segment from a zone players claimed during the bidding phase to prevent them from building a key tile. This power may not always be disruptive but it seems like it have some potential.

Tycoon seems strong in the first round to basically ignore the results of the bidding round. This might not block other players construction plans but frees you to bid in ways that could disrupt other player's bids since you could bid simply to block other players and develop on other peoples zones.

Lawyer is by design simply a disruptive play which seems like it would cause fear during the bidding round and the expression "I hate lawyers!" to be repeating over and over by other players. Of course, generating loathing for lawyers is a great design feature.

During play testing, how strong and/or how feared are these role cards in practice.
 
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For those who have not committed all of the role cards to memory yet (and what's hold you back from doing so???), I'll state the role powers Nathan mentioned and then open the floor for comments.

ENGINEER: At the start of the construction phase, remove one fully exposed building tile from the City and add it to your hand. Play this tile as normal during the construction phase.

The motivation for this card was a quote from Doctor McCoy in the first Star Trek movie. He's grumpy as usual and seeing how everything has changed on the refitted Enterprise he worrys about his beloved sick bay, saying "engineers love the change things". So, in Sunrise City, the engineer gets to change things by removing one building tile and playing it somewhere else. This power is very useful if you can choose a building that, when replayed, will give you the points you need to hit the benchmark star on the score track. You could also use this power to remove a building tile that is very flexible (a double mixed use, for example) to that you can have a greater opportunity to play it and so that others will be denied that opportunity for a time. Since the engineers power is limited to pulling top building tiles, it does not really affect the zoning tiles at all. If the engineer were to remove a first floor building tile, it would a crisply open things up more for other players to pair those newly opened zones with neighboring zones they may have acquired during the bidding phase.


TYCOON: During the Construction Phase you may place first floor buildings without regard the the zone ownership requirements.

The Tycoon is a self centered jerk of a role. It is patterned off of all those people who think money and power mean the rules donor apply to them. Usually, the play a first floor building you have to control at least one of the zone tiles you're building on. The tycoon, however, can build anywhere as long as the roads are not blocking him. He can build on zones that no one controls and he can build on zones that other players control and on which he has no winning bid token. His only limit is that he gains only the center score for the building tile. The players who actually own the zones get the bonus scores on the tile. Nathan's analysis is correct, because the tycoon has fewer limits on where he can build he is freed up to bid in aggressive and disruptive manners. He can also Ouse his power to stomp on players who were unlucky in the bidding phase and only had the winning bids on one or two zones. If the tycoon can build on their zones before they do then that play will be limited to upper floor placements for the rest of the construction phase. The tycoon is a very aggressive and disruptive role, but not one that is likely to rake in many points for its player.

LAWYER: At the start of the construction phase, you may swap the locations of one of your bid markers and a bid marker belonging to another player.

Hey, everybody hates lawyers, right (apologies to any real world lawyers reading this). The lawyer's power allows him to ignore the zone he really wants because he knows that later he'll be able to swoop in and pull some legal trickery to get control of it. A really viscous lawyer will spend a bid token to get a piece-of-crap zone that is useless because other buildings have isolated it, and then pull his switcheroo to get control of a piece of prime real estate that another player sweated to win, leaving that player marooned in a concrete jungle. The Sunrise City lawyer is a real bastard if played right but, like the tycoon, his disruptive nature is limited in that he cannot guarantee he'll benefit from his manipulations. Someone else might build on his newly acquired zone before he can.

Any questions?




 
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kamus73 wrote:
No role power in a given round is going to allow one player to run away with the game. It really should come down to executing a role at a time, and how that role will interact with the role(s) and power(s) of the other player(s).


Mark is exactly correct. The interaction of he roles can create strange and wonderful situations. In a recent game I chose the Zoning Commissioner, which gives me double district points in the zoning phase. It's a cool card that is a great zoning phase scoring engine if you have a variety of zone types in your hand and can play off the zones place by other players. Imagine my surprise when my opponent flipped over his County Supervisor card, which gives him equal district points when anyone else scores district points. Now, every time is got my double district points my opponent would get them too, so I have to weigh how my juicy placements will affect his score. Grrrrrrrrr.

There is a lot of interesting and sometimes unexpected role interactions and they make each game a new and exciting adventure.
 
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Nathan Burg
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That makes sense. I guess I will have to play the game to see how everything works out. Thanks!
 
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