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Space Hulk: Death Angel – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Newbie Time rss

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Seth Pontiff
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First I have to say that I absolutely love this game. Don't know why I waited for so long to find this one. I do have some rule questions though

1. When you play a Move+Activate card, do you perform each step of that action on one marine first then the do the other one, or must you move both, then change facing for both, then activate both? And yes I already know that all of these are optional which brings me to my next question.

2. If you play a Move+Activate card, can you choose not to move/change facing/activate and just perform your marine's ability? What about other actions? Can you choose to just do nothing? This does sound like a dumb idea but there's a reason I'm asking.

3. Do genestealers spawn on both sides of your marine with just one terrain card on one side, or do they just spawn on the actual same side as the terrain card?
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
1. When you play a Move+Activate card, do you perform each step of that action on one marine first then the do the other one, or must you move both, then change facing for both, then activate both? And yes I already know that all of these are optional which brings me to my next question.

Each marine must perform each step before you move onto the next step.
So, for example, you could not move a marine, have him activate, then move another marine to replace him. Activation must occur after all movement has taken place.

Fryd Pickles wrote:
2. If you play a Move+Activate card, can you choose not to move/change facing/activate and just perform your marine's ability? What about other actions? Can you choose to just do nothing? This does sound like a dumb idea but there's a reason I'm asking.

Yes, you may choose not to move or activate but still to use the printed ability. If you wanted a marine to NOT attack during an Attack action, you can choose to not attack. Likewise, if you wanted to not use the special ability on your action card, you can choose not to do so.

Fryd Pickles wrote:
3. Do genestealers spawn on both sides of your marine with just one terrain card on one side, or do they just spawn on the actual same side as the terrain card?

When genestealers spawn on a terrain card, they spawn on the same side as the terrain card. The genestealer card is taken ONLY from the blip pool on the same side as the terrain card indicated and spawns face-up by that terrain card. This holds true even if a whole group of genestealers spawn at once.


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Seth Pontiff
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Well I've been playing right except for the move+activate card. I was performing that action one marine at a time. Thanks for the swift answer.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
Well I've been playing right except for the move+activate card. I was performing that action one marine at a time. Thanks for the swift answer.


NB each terrain can only be activated once per turn. That means red can't activate a door, and then green replaces him later and activates the door again. I missed this my first few plays. This also makes some of the "Stage 4" cards more difficult.
 
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Seth Pontiff
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BagpipeDan wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
Well I've been playing right except for the move+activate card. I was performing that action one marine at a time. Thanks for the swift answer.


NB each terrain can only be activated once per turn. That means red can't activate a door, and then green replaces him later and activates the door again. I missed this my first few plays. This also makes some of the "Stage 4" cards more difficult.


Yeah, I screwed that up trying to activate the control panel 2 times in the same round as a last ditch effort with my last 3 remaining marines. I still loss though so the game punished me for cheating.

Why does the move+activate card work in such a way where you have to do each step of that action to each marine before going on to the next one? I'm just trying to grasp that concept and why it's tailored that way.
 
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Seth Pontiff
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lordrahvin wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
1. When you play a Move+Activate card, do you perform each step of that action on one marine first then the do the other one, or must you move both, then change facing for both, then activate both? And yes I already know that all of these are optional which brings me to my next question.

Each marine must perform each step before you move onto the next step.
So, for example, you could not move a marine, have him activate, then move another marine to replace him. Activation must occur after all movement has taken place.


I actually just watched a video that Tom Tempest did and he was playing it the same way I was, yet I keep reading differently throughout the forums. Which way is correct?

http://boardgamegeek.com/video/4215/space-hulk-death-angel-t...
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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Fryd Pickles wrote:

I actually just watched a video that Tom Tempest did and he was playing it the same way I was, yet I keep reading differently throughout the forums. Which way is correct?

http://boardgamegeek.com/video/4215/space-hulk-death-angel-t...


The example is confusing because in the example they only move and activate with one marine instead of both. Furthermore, there are frequent references to "after moving any of your marines" and the term "any" instead of "each" or "every" is confusing.

But, from the rulebook:

The rulebook wrote:
When resolving a Move + Activate Action, the player performs any or all of the following steps (in order).
A. Moving
B. Change Facing
C. Activate Terrain


Furthermore, section B. starts with this:
The rulebook wrote:
After moving any of his Space Marines, the player may change the facing of any Space Marine in the Combat Team (including those who moved).

This makes it pretty clear that you do not change facing until all of your movement is done and is consistent with the other section quoted above.

This means you would only activate terrain after all of your changing facing is done, and your change of facing can only happen after you are done moving marines around.
 
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Seth Pontiff
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lordrahvin wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:

I actually just watched a video that Tom Tempest did and he was playing it the same way I was, yet I keep reading differently throughout the forums. Which way is correct?

http://boardgamegeek.com/video/4215/space-hulk-death-angel-t...


The example is confusing because in the example they only move and activate with one marine instead of both. Furthermore, there are frequent references to "after moving any of your marines" and the term "any" instead of "each" or "every" is confusing.

But, from the rulebook:

The rulebook wrote:
When resolving a Move + Activate Action, the player performs any or all of the following steps (in order).
A. Moving
B. Change Facing
C. Activate Terrain


Furthermore, section B. starts with this:
The rulebook wrote:
After moving any of his Space Marines, the player may change the facing of any Space Marine in the Combat Team (including those who moved).

This makes it pretty clear that you do not change facing until all of your movement is done and is consistent with the other section quoted above.

This means you would only activate terrain after all of your changing facing is done, and your change of facing can only happen after you are done moving marines around.


I did catch that wording in the rulebook after watching the video. I guess Tom did it wrong as well. I just don't understand the premise behind doing that way. I don't see any advantage nor disadvantage performing that action in the way the video or I was doing it.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
I did catch that wording in the rulebook after watching the video. I guess Tom did it wrong as well. I just don't understand the premise behind doing that way. I don't see any advantage nor disadvantage performing that action in the way the video or I was doing it.


I think the point is so that you can't... say... activate a control panel and then go stand guard somewhere else. If you're going to activate the control panel, you need to spend some time (like one turn) actually being at that panel.

I ran into this issue and had to look it up because I wanted to activate a door (getting two tokens for Red team special ability, woohoo!) but would have had to have my back to two genestealers to do it.

Under your rules, there would have been no chance to take there. I could have moved to the door, faced the door, then activated the door... then moved another marine to the door, replacing the first marine, and turned that marine toward the genestealers. No chance whatsoever of getting stabbed in the back. Not only would this be easier, it wouldn't have made too much sense since my marine didn't spend any time at the terrain to activate it -- he just sort of blitzed through.

Instead I had to choose... activate the door or turn around and face the genestealers. I chose the door. Got two tokens on the door, but the genestealers did him in and he couldn't use his support token to defend. A noble but ultimately foolish sacrifice for the team.

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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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lordrahvin wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
I did catch that wording in the rulebook after watching the video. I guess Tom did it wrong as well. I just don't understand the premise behind doing that way. I don't see any advantage nor disadvantage performing that action in the way the video or I was doing it.


I think the point is so that you can't... say... activate a control panel and then go stand guard somewhere else. If you're going to activate the control panel, you need to spend some time (like one turn) actually being at that panel.


Except I can move Leon in front of a door, turn him to face it, activate it... and then have green "move and activate" the card after and have Gideon switch with him, turn around, and face those two genestealers, right?
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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BagpipeDan wrote:
lordrahvin wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
I did catch that wording in the rulebook after watching the video. I guess Tom did it wrong as well. I just don't understand the premise behind doing that way. I don't see any advantage nor disadvantage performing that action in the way the video or I was doing it.


I think the point is so that you can't... say... activate a control panel and then go stand guard somewhere else. If you're going to activate the control panel, you need to spend some time (like one turn) actually being at that panel.


Except I can move Leon in front of a door, turn him to face it, activate it... and then have green "move and activate" the card after and have Gideon switch with him, turn around, and face those two genestealers, right?


Hmmm... I'm starting to see your point.
 
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Seth Pontiff
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BagpipeDan wrote:
lordrahvin wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
I did catch that wording in the rulebook after watching the video. I guess Tom did it wrong as well. I just don't understand the premise behind doing that way. I don't see any advantage nor disadvantage performing that action in the way the video or I was doing it.


I think the point is so that you can't... say... activate a control panel and then go stand guard somewhere else. If you're going to activate the control panel, you need to spend some time (like one turn) actually being at that panel.


Except I can move Leon in front of a door, turn him to face it, activate it... and then have green "move and activate" the card after and have Gideon switch with him, turn around, and face those two genestealers, right?


That's what I was thinking. Brook, are you sure the ordering system for move+action is so you follow that order for each marine? I get both sides of the rule but there are a lot of typos and misleading words in this rulebook. Maybe Corey should shed some light on this one.
 
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Brook Gentlestream
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I believe my interpretation is correct as far as interpreting the rules as written, but I'm also recognizing the futility of those rules in regards to Fryd Pickles point that the rule doesn't seem to accomplish what it is apparently meant to.

It is my opinion that a better way to handle the situation within the apparent spirit of the original rules (as I see it), is to have the Activation happen on a separate phase, just before the event phase.

Thus, after you resolve Marine Actions (supporting, moving, or shooting), there would be a separate Activation phase where any marines that used the Move + Activate action could activate a terrain card that is in front of them.

This would make sure that terrain could only be activated once per turn and that activation would occur after all marine movement, which both seem to be the original intentions of the designer.

But then this would be a Variant and not playing strictly according to the rules as written.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Except Orange's special ability is PREMISED on the ability to move in, turn, activate, and then immediately take a second move action. The "loophole" I bring up is predicated on the idea that two marines are using their move orders in one turn, which could be risky, but also it males some thematic sense (as vaguely thematic as this game is) that you are "dealing witht the terrain" while a friend covers your back (an important part of original spacehulk which can't be properly simulated in the narrow confines of the "formation" Death Angel uses)
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Just to make it clear: for each move order so three things: move both marines one at a time. [-]with the caveat that everybody must end up adjacent to where he started[-]. Then flip either marine (if you want to) that matches the order card (whether he moved or not). Then each marine gets a chance to "activate" a terrain card (assuming nobody has activated it before him this turn). Resolve special abilities. Move onto the next card, where anybody can move again following the stated rules.
 
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BagpipeDan wrote:
Except Orange's special ability is PREMISED on the ability to move in, turn, activate, and then immediately take a second move action.


Sorry, I'm not familiar with an orange team, so this sounds like heresy to me.

I can't really help where the expansions are concerned, so if something I said conflicts with what's in the expansions... well, that is part of the danger of using Variants in the first place, isn't it? Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

But for what it's worth I think you have an understanding of how the rules as written should be applied.
 
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BagpipeDan wrote:
Just to make it clear: for each move order so three things: move both marines, with the caveat that everybody must end up adjacent to where he started. Then flip either marine (if you want to) that matches the order card (whether he moved or not). Then each marine gets a chance to "activate" a terrain card (assuming nobody has activated it before him this turn). Resolve special abilities. Move onto the next card, where anybody can move again following the stated rules.


I don't think the marines have to end up adjacent to where they started. If your two marines on the same team are next to each other, you are able to switch them by moving your first marine. Then the marine that was forced to switch due to the first move could then move with a different marine from another team. Thus, that marine would not be adjacent to where he started.
 
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
I don't think the marines have to end up adjacent to where they started. If your two marines on the same team are next to each other, you are able to switch them by moving your first marine. Then the marine that was forced to switch due to the first move could then move with a different marine from another team. Thus, that marine would not be adjacent to where he started.


It says in the "move" section that each marine "may only be moved once." I took that to mean that if Noctis moves and trades places with Gideon, Gideon cannot then move after, as he's already been moved. I could be wrong, but it seems too easy if you can move somebody two spaces with one card.
 
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BagpipeDan wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
I don't think the marines have to end up adjacent to where they started. If your two marines on the same team are next to each other, you are able to switch them by moving your first marine. Then the marine that was forced to switch due to the first move could then move with a different marine from another team. Thus, that marine would not be adjacent to where he started.


It says in the "move" section that each marine "may only be moved once." I took that to mean that if Noctis moves and trades places with Gideon, Gideon cannot then move after, as he's already been moved. I could be wrong, but it seems too easy if you can move somebody two spaces with one card.


Yes, but Gideon is not moving by performing his action. He is only technically moving because Noctis moved has his action and swapped with Gideon. So Gideon still has a move action left. If a marine is "forced" to move because of another marine's move action, that doesn't constitute a move on the forced marine's end.
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
BagpipeDan wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
I don't think the marines have to end up adjacent to where they started. If your two marines on the same team are next to each other, you are able to switch them by moving your first marine. Then the marine that was forced to switch due to the first move could then move with a different marine from another team. Thus, that marine would not be adjacent to where he started.


It says in the "move" section that each marine "may only be moved once." I took that to mean that if Noctis moves and trades places with Gideon, Gideon cannot then move after, as he's already been moved. I could be wrong, but it seems too easy if you can move somebody two spaces with one card.


Yes, but Gideon is not moving by performing his action. He is only technically moving because Noctis moved has his action and swapped with Gideon. So Gideon still has a move action left. If a marine is "forced" to move because of another marine's move action, that doesn't constitute a move on the forced marine's end.


Yeah, I think you're right. We've played it both ways, the way you're saying at first, and I think that's the correct way. It just seems a little too powerful, but I think I was over-reading the rules.
 
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
Yes, but Gideon is not moving by performing his action. He is only technically moving because Noctis moved has his action and swapped with Gideon. So Gideon still has a move action left. If a marine is "forced" to move because of another marine's move action, that doesn't constitute a move on the forced marine's end.


I agree with this interpretation. Noctis is moving (performing a move action), but Gideon is not. Gideon and Noctis must now trade places as a result of Noctis' move, Gideon has not yet moved.
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Well here's the official ruling from Corey himself.

The steps of Move+Activate are:
1) Move zero, one, or both of the space marines.
2) Change facing of zero, one or both space marines.
3) Activate with zero, one or both space marines.


I hope this answers your question!
-Corey Konieczka
VP of R&D
Fantasy Flight Games

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That doesn't actually address whether "both" means simultaneously or consecutively (for movement) movement), but I assume by the rules it means the latter (though I play using the former)
 
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BagpipeDan wrote:
That doesn't actually address whether "both" means simultaneously or consecutively (for movement) movement), but I assume by the rules it means the latter (though I play using the former)


They clearly are steps that have to be done in order. Corey is saying you have to move zero, one, or both marines then move on to step two. I'm awaiting his reply about how this rule fits in thematically and why couldn't you do all steps to just one marine before moving on to the next.
 
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