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Subject: Speed up the start rss

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twesterm
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Lewisville
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One common problem a lot of people seem to have with deck building type games is the first few turns are always slow. Quarriors is no exception to this rule with assistants bouncing off each other for the first 2-3 rounds and no interesting dice coming up for at least the first two full turns.

To fix that, what if we allowed players to buy dice before the game starts? I've been thinking of different quiddity values and the one I keep coming back to 1 - highest quiddity cost card. So if the 9 cost quake dragon is out, players get 8 quiddity with of dice. They can spend that all on one dice or get multiple small ones.

Players take turns picking one dice at a time until all players have used up their starting quiddity or don't want to buy any more dice. So with 8 starting quiddity, they could buy 1 8 cost ooze, 2 portals, a witch and a goblin, etc.

Once all players are finished with their bonus quiddity, they put the bonus dice in their bag with their starting dice and play goes as normal.

What does everyone think?
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A.J. Sansom
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twesterm wrote:
One common problem a lot of people seem to have with deck building type games is the first few turns are always slow. Quarriors is no exception to this rule with assistants bouncing off each other for the first 2-3 rounds and no interesting dice coming up for at least the first two full turns.

To fix that, what if we allowed players to buy dice before the game starts? I've been thinking of different quiddity values and the one I keep coming back to 1 - highest quiddity cost card. So if the 9 cost quake dragon is out, players get 8 quiddity with of dice. They can spend that all on one dice or get multiple small ones.

Players take turns picking one dice at a time until all players have used up their starting quiddity or don't want to buy any more dice. So with 8 starting quiddity, they could buy 1 8 cost ooze, 2 portals, a witch and a goblin, etc.

Once all players are finished with their bonus quiddity, they put the bonus dice in their bag with their starting dice and play goes as normal.

What does everyone think?


You could even take this idea a step further and possibly address the "first player always wins" issue:
The player who will be going last gets 6 quiddity, the next-to-last gets 5, then 4, then the starting player would get 3 quiddity (in a four player game; for three players it would be 4-5-6).
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Jason B
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1.) Out of 7 games I've never seen 1st player win.

2.) Making it "most expensive thing -1" means that everyone will probably buy the next most expensive thing. Most of those high cost creatures are really powerful and this would definitely speed the game up dramatically, especially if that creature is a DotP.
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twesterm
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See, I'm not sure if I would always buy the most expensive thing. If I had 8 quiddity to play with, I would probably buy two portals or a portal and a growth charm, or, well, a portal and anything because portals are great.

Since you're also going in some order, you can react to what people buy. Oh, so you bought the most expensive creature? Everybody buy a death charm! I'm guessing in a four player game you would get four different bags and that's pretty much the goal. It might even be interesting to let people buy basic quiddity (and raise the price to 1 for pre-game buying).

And, yeah, we've come to the general consensus that the first person usually loses.
 
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Aaron Bohm
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I don't think the start of Quarriors is too slow at all. By turn 3 you potentially have 2 decent creatures and games rarely last 10 rounds or more.

If you are worried about 1st turn advantage, slowing down the game is actually what you should recommend. The reason is that as the last player, at the end of your second turn at best you can have a few assistants summoned. Now, as player 1 starts his third turn he can potentially draw those possible 2 decent or near-awesome creatures (the first person that gets to do so) he bought and kill off your assistants. All the recommendations I read that say something to the effect of "player 4 should gain X, player 1 should lose X" don't seem to be very balanced ideas (although summoner wars did do something like this that you should take a look at) and it seems like it would change the game to much to be universally helpful to everyone.

Thunderstone to me seems to mitigate the first player advantage in that players always need 4-5 turns or more of refining their deck engines before seriously challenging the dungeon. Because this takes longer, and all the decks get shuffled more, the law of averages takes over moreso. Not to say the earlier players don't still retain some sort of advantage, but I think this helps.

An easy way to do this then without changing any of the game rules would be to include 4 more basic quidity dice and 2 more assistants. That way there would be at least 1 more turn of mediocrity among all players allowing later players yet another turn to score before facing ugraded creatures while keeping the same ratio (the "downside" is that a grab of 6 assistants would be possible and it would take longer to remove the useless dice from your bag). Anyway, that's my theory.
 
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Adam Brocker
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This could solve the issue of someone getting 8 quiddity on their first turn. Saw that once and they had a Dragon on the 1st turn of the game. This would also allow people to customize their decks without having to worry about rolling the correct amount. Interesting concept. Thanks!
 
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twesterm
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Forgot to mention we've tried this a few times and it worked well! Even when we had the 9 cost dragon it never turned into just buy the next highest thing. The most bought thing generally became portals but what was most important is that everyone had a different bag at the beginning of the game and the first two turns wasn't just assistants bouncing off each other.
 
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