Eugenio -
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There are many abilities (Mercs, Ghosts' RST Dimensional Splicer) that say assign one hit.
Should the casualty be taken immediatly or should you wait until the "remove casualties" step?
[this means that the targeted unit may get to fire once before being destroyed]
Last time I ruled it as the latter (inspired by Minelayers AC clarification) but I am still doubtful.


One more question: both Duranium Armor and N'orr's Exotrireme trigger at the end of the combat round.
Which one is the first to trigger?
This is not very important, but suppose the N'orr are facing three enemy damaged DNs with DA, and they have one DN of their own.
If DA triggers before, the N'orr player can choose to destroy the repaired DN with its own exploding DN.
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Scott Lewis
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Eu8L1ch wrote:
There are many abilities (Mercs, Ghosts' RST Dimensional Splicer) that say assign one hit.
Should the casualty be taken immediatly or should you wait until the "remove casualties" step?
[this means that the targeted unit may get to fire once before being destroyed]
Last time I ruled it as the latter (inspired by Minelayers AC clarification) but I am still doubtful.

If it happens during pre-combat, it happens immediately. The only time you wait until the Remove Casualties step is during a round of combat.


Quote:
One more question: both Duranium Armor and N'orr's Exotrireme trigger at the end of the combat round.
Which one is the first to trigger?
This is not very important, but suppose the N'orr are facing three enemy damaged DNs with DA, and they have one DN of their own.
If DA triggers before, the N'orr player can choose to destroy the repaired DN with its own exploding DN.

I would say the defender chooses, just like they get to choose the order of pre-combat effects.
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Eugenio -
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I don't think there is a "remove casualties step" during pre-combat.
In fact Assault Cannon for example specifies casualties must be taken immediately.
One more issue:both Krevvil's ability and Dimensional Splicer say "at the start of a Space Battle". You could interpret this as "at the beginning of the first round of a SB", otherwise I think it should have said "before the beginning of a SB", as usual.
But it could be interpreted even as"at the start of the SB step", thus even before pre-combat abilities (like Naalu's retreat).

EDIT: seeing other mercs' abilities that say " at the start of a battle" I'm much more inclined towards "at the start of the SB/IC step".
My argument about "remove casualties step" stays the same though.



Quote:
I would say the defender chooses, just like they get to choose the order of pre-combat effects.


I agree with you, but I wanted to know if there is an official ruling about it.
If not I think I will ask Corey, just to be sure.
You know, it's not that unlikely to happen if both N'orr and L1Z1X are in the game.
 
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Eu8L1ch wrote:
I don't think there is a "remove casualties step" during pre-combat.
In fact Assault Cannon for example specifies casualties must be taken immediately.
One more issue:both Krevvil's ability and Dimensional Splicer say "at the start of a Space Battle". You could interpret this as "at the beginning of the first round of a SB", otherwise I think it should have said "before the beginning of a SB", as usual.
But it could be interpreted even as"at the start of the SB step", thus even before pre-combat abilities (like Naalu's retreat).

EDIT: seeing other mercs' abilities that say " at the start of a battle" I'm much more inclined towards "at the start of the SB/IC step".
My argument about "remove casualties step" stays the same though.

I understand where you are coming from, but I'm 99% certain if you were to get an official ruling, it would be stated that pre-combat effects (which all "at the beginning of combat" things are) that they would be taken immediately.

The first round of combat doesn't start until after all those effects are done. If you didn't apply them immediately, it would make almost all those effects a lot less useful, since their whole point is that you deal that damage before things get rolling to weaken the enemy force.



Quote:
Quote:
I would say the defender chooses, just like they get to choose the order of pre-combat effects.


I agree with you, but I wanted to know if there is an official ruling about it.
If not I think I will ask Corey, just to be sure.
You know, it's not that unlikely to happen if both N'orr and L1Z1X are in the game.

If you want an official ruling, you'll need to ask Corey
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Eugenio -
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There are some weird rules in TI after all, so I'm not sure interpreting things intuitively always leads to the right answer..
Thank you for your replies
 
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I asked FFG and got a reply, here it is:

Quote:
Hello Eugenio,

The hit from Dimensional Splicer is applied immediately at the start of battle with no return fire allowed. For Exotrireme, this is used after a retreat is performed and after your opponent chooses a damaged unit to repair.

Rule Question:
Hi,
One of the race-specific technologies in Shards of the Throne, Dimensional Splicer, states "you may assign one hit to one ship of your choice".
Is the hit applied immediately with no return fire allowed, or is it applied during the remove casualties step of the first round of the Space Battle?
Another question: N'orr's 2nd race-specific technolgy, Exotrireme, may be used at the end of the combat round.
Is it used before or after a retreat is performed?
If your opponent has the Duranium Armor technology, is it used before your opponent chooses which damaged unit to repair?

Thank you for your attention,
Eugenio Camalich from Leghorn, Italy


Thanks,
Adam Sadler
Managing Game Producer
Fantasy Flight Games
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Joshua Armstrong
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Can't argue with that...

However I was going by the description in the base rule book about space battles - when rolling dice each player comes up with a number of "hits" and for each "hit" scored each player must remove a "casualty"

By that interpretation (at least for the Dimensional Splicer tech) I assumed that while I got to assign a "hit" to any ship, that ship could return fire and then was destroyed during the "Remove Casualties Step"

This line of thinking was reinforced by the faq ruling for the "Minelayers" Action Card.

But again - all of that is moot with this response - The Ghost's just got a lot more powerful.
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Pretty much all "pre-combat" hits are applied immediately. I think there is one that specifically says to wait until the first Casualties step, but all others apply right away, including:
- Anti-Fighter Barrage
- Assault Cannon
- Dimensional Splicer
- Mentak ability

If the casualties for things like Assault Cannon weren't applied right away, it would really detract from their usefulness.
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Simon Kamber
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Eu8L1ch wrote:
But it could be interpreted even as"at the start of the SB step", thus even before pre-combat abilities (like Naalu's retreat).


I don't have the card handy, but I'm pretty sure Naalu's retreat is not a pre-combat ability. It happens BEFORE the space battle step (which is why a lot of the abilities that normally affect retreats, won't stop the Naalu).
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Eugenio -
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Axensmash wrote:
Can't argue with that...

However I was going by the description in the base rule book about space battles - when rolling dice each player comes up with a number of "hits" and for each "hit" scored each player must remove a "casualty"

By that interpretation (at least for the Dimensional Splicer tech) I assumed that while I got to assign a "hit" to any ship, that ship could return fire and then was destroyed during the "Remove Casualties Step"

This line of thinking was reinforced by the faq ruling for the "Minelayers" Action Card.

But again - all of that is moot with this response - The Ghost's just got a lot more powerful.


My reasoning was almost the same, even if it didn't made much sense from a thematical point of view.
What made me doubtful is the fact that the rules for vanilla/SE cards are explicit about return fire, while the new cards aren't.




@Simon

Yes, the Naalu's retreat is not a pre-combat ability (although on the race sheet it is not stated clearly).
 
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Roberto Armentia
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Eu8L1ch wrote:
I asked FFG and got a reply, here it is:

Quote:
Hello Eugenio,

The hit from Dimensional Splicer is applied immediately at the start of battle with no return fire allowed. For Exotrireme, this is used after a retreat is performed and after your opponent chooses a damaged unit to repair.

Rule Question:
Hi,
One of the race-specific technologies in Shards of the Throne, Dimensional Splicer, states "you may assign one hit to one ship of your choice".
Is the hit applied immediately with no return fire allowed, or is it applied during the remove casualties step of the first round of the Space Battle?
Another question: N'orr's 2nd race-specific technolgy, Exotrireme, may be used at the end of the combat round.
Is it used before or after a retreat is performed?
If your opponent has the Duranium Armor technology, is it used before your opponent chooses which damaged unit to repair?

Thank you for your attention,
Eugenio Camalich from Leghorn, Italy


Thanks,
Adam Sadler
Managing Game Producer
Fantasy Flight Games


Corey did answer the opposite way afterwards:

Hi Corey,

I read that you stated that the Dimensional Splicer should be considered a pre-combat ability. However, my friends and I are still having a debate over whether the Dimensional Splicer casualty should receive return fire. Both Assault Cannon and the Mentak pre-combat shots both explicitly state that casualties do not receive return fire. The Dimensional Splicer makes no such clarification, and could be interpreted as the Minelayers Action Card, where hits are applied at the start of the battle, but the casualties still receive return fire.

So, do the casualties of the Dimensional Splicer receive return fire?

Thanks!


Corey Konieczka
2:48 PM (16 minutes ago)

to me
John,

This works exactly like the minelayers card. The hit is inflicted, but the ship is not destroyed until the end of the first round.

Thanks for playing!!
- Corey Konieczka
VP of R&D
Fantasy Flight Games


What is correct??
 
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