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King of Tokyo» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lacking benefit for Staying in Tokyo? rss

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Matthew Robinson
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I haven't played the game yet but I've read the rules and the rules forums (and I've ordered a copy through my FLGS) but in thinking about the game it really seems like (especially in a 4-6 player game) that there isn't enough incentive for staying in Tokyo.

It would make sense if every turn (not just your own) you got 2VP for surviving the barrage of attacks in Tokyo -- thematically and strategically. But if you come into Tokyo on your turn (which I imagine would happen nearly every turn) then you have to wait for everyone else to beat up on you before you even get a chance to a) get 2VP or b) beat up on everyone simultaneously -- the two incentives for staying in Tokyo.

It seems like the "push your luck" element of the game would come from balancing the hits you're taking (plus your inability to heal yourself while in Tokyo) with the VP you're getting every turn. Otherwise, you're just holding Tokyo for the hopes that you'll get a chance at a measly 2VP in four or five turns and a chance to swat back at everyone. The odds of surviving that long are slim to none it seems.

The rules, while not explicitly clear, do seem to lean more towards the monster in Tokyo only getting 2VP at the start of their turn -- but I'm just curious, what if it's a mistranslation?

It just seems to make more sense, strategically and thematically, if you get 2VP every turn, not just your own, when you're King of Tokyo.

Take this with a grain of salt... I haven't played the game yet.
 
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Mark Chaplin
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I'll have to take it with a pinch of salt, unfortunately.

The game would be over in roughly 5 minutes if you gained VP on every turn.



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Matthew Robinson
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Yugblad wrote:
I'll have to take it with a pinch of salt, unfortunately.

The game would be over in roughly 5 minutes if you gained VP on every turn.





I believe you, but considering the monsters only have 10 health and can't heal themselves in Tokyo, how could they possibly survive more than 2 or 3 rounds in Tokyo without risking death? The most VP they'd get is 4 or 6 before having no choice but to run and heal up for a few of their turns.
 
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David Winter
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Someone gave me 88gg for a rules translation and all I got was this lousy overtext
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The best thing about being in tokyo is the opportunity to deal damage to 4-5 other monsters at once.
Yeah it's not easy to do though, and rightly so.
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Leigh Caple
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Partly because the Monsters outside of Tokyo have firstly got to roll damage to hurt you but also because they are likely to be pursuing other strategies of healing themselves, getting points and collecting energy, all of which will preclude rolling lots of damage symbols.

Often attacking the person in Tokyo is the LAST thing you want to do since any attack means you risk being sent to Tokyo (if the player there yields).
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G S
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Leighbob wrote:
Partly because the Monsters outside of Tokyo have firstly got to roll damage to hurt you but also because they are likely to be pursuing other strategies of healing themselves, getting points and collecting energy, all of which will preclude rolling lots of damage symbols.

Often attacking the person in Tokyo is the LAST thing you want to do since any attack means you risk being sent to Tokyo (if the player there yields).


I do think that the idea of no one wanting to be forced to go into Tokyo being a flaw of the game though. The game is described as sort- of "king of the hill", but it's not as interesting if no one wants to be king. I feel like the game would be more fun if everyone was always fighting to be the one in Tokyo, and where yielding Tokyo would be an agonizing decision rather than the "default" choice.

However, I think changing it to 2 VP every turn is way overkill. I've come up with a couple ideas to increase the VPs slightly while in Tokyo, you can take a look in the Variants section. Also, I think if there were more cards (in the future) that rewarded being in Tokyo, I think that would help a lot too.
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Jeff Watts
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After three plays, I'm thinking the game suffers from the best strategy being to avoid fighting in Tokyo. Since you take such a pounding going into Tokyo and get very little points for it, in every case the players who tried to stay in Tokyo died and the players who stayed out and tried to roll triple 3's won the game.
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Matthew Kimber
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I played four games yesterday, in one of those games a player won the game by moving into Tokyo hanging tough until his turn and then rolling 5 claws to kill us all(we were all so busy trying to kill him, score vps or buy cards that we forgot to heal!)
 
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Yiorgos Golfinopoulos
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The simple truth is that it is a bad move to try to stay in Tokyo for a whole round against 4-5 other monsters. Simply yield at the first opportunity you get.
Later in the game though, when some monsters are dead, it is smart to get there for the win either through points or aggression.
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Jay Levy
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It's been my experience that every game plays different based on the abilities the monsters pull up. We had one person with the armor card, the card that allows you to yield without taking damage, and the damage reflection card. They liked being in Tokyo because they could more easily manage the threat.

That's what's fun about the game to me - the strategy and tactics are unpredictable.
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Brian M
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Quote:
The simple truth is that it is a bad move to try to stay in Tokyo for a whole round against 4-5 other monsters.

The simpler truth is that if you are playing a 5-6 player game, two monsters go into Tokyo so you are never staying in Tokyo alone against 5 other monsters, and only against 4 in a 6 player game
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Jamie Shepherd
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StormKnight wrote:
Quote:
The simple truth is that it is a bad move to try to stay in Tokyo for a whole round against 4-5 other monsters.

The simpler truth is that if you are playing a 5-6 player game, two monsters go into Tokyo so you are never staying in Tokyo alone against 5 other monsters, and only against 4 in a 6 player game


I've found this to not really be true. Since both monsters can leave tokyo (and tokyo bay) when they get hit we have often only had one monster on the board at a time. Turn 1 monster enters... turn 2 monster hits and monster 1 leaves. Lather rinse repeat.
 
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Alex Martinez
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First of all, to the OP, I say reading the rules and playing the game are two entirely different things. This is why reading a book on driving instruction is not the same as being a race car driver. Theory and practice are two entirely different things.

Secondly, staying in Tokyo depends entirely on the strategy you are pursuing and the strategy of your opponents. It's true that a monster who stays in Tokyo who is attacked by all his opponents will have some trouble. On the other hand, if they aren't using their own dice to heal or gather VP / Energy, then they are also weakening themselves. In most of my games, if a monster stays in Tokyo, he can often flatten all his opponents (provided he survives).

Basically, the element of the game that the rules cannot show is that this isn't just a game about rolling dice, but about limited options. Since you only get 6 dice, you can't ever do everything you want. If you're attacking another monster, you're not healing. If you're healing, you're not gathering VP. And if you're gathering VP, then you're...you get the idea.

Much of your decision depends on what your opponents are trying to do. If your opponents are aggressive, it's usually worth it to abandon Tokyo. However, some players will gather VP and heal, slowly nibbling away at the King of Tokyo, which can work too.

And, of course, a lot depends on what cards are in play and whether or not players are using them.

Bottom line: Reading the rules isn't the same as playing the game.
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Matthew Robinson
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Remember when I said "Take this with a grain of salt... I haven't played the game yet"?

But thanks for your illuminating race car metaphor.

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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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I think the game really suffers from there being no incentive to play it.

Barring that, when I did play it, it felt like the best play was to roll 3's. This was a 4 player game. After I got knocked out, it was much more beneficial to stay in Tokyo.
 
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