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Subject: God's Playground is the work of the Devil rss

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Eugene
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Struggled through our first game of GP last night. Actually, just half a game, as we had to call it quits after 30 minutes of rules explanation and 3 hours of two completed game turns.

I don't feel qualified to assess the gameplay of GP just yet. But I'm confident in my assessment of its rulebook: It's an evil of Satanic proportions.

All who are responsible for this wickedness need to be kicked in the balls by a very big nun.
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Steve E.
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Totally agree. I put this game on the shelf for over a year because I didn't want to deal with the Ottoman/Hapsburg rules anymore.

However, we just picked it up again in the past few weeks and have been enjoying it quite a bit. It's an interesting, brutal game.

I'm not sure if we're playing it correctly, but we've agreed on a interpretation of the rules as we understand them.

Anyway- lots of sympathy for you, but rest assured the game is actually quite good ... eventually.
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Eugene
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As we stopped at the end of Turn 2, we didn't have opportunity to suffer the full torment of the Hapsburg/Ottoman rules.

Our favorite bit though was this innocuous sentence in the Enemies Expand phase:

"The rules governing these expansions are the same as those dealing with the initial enemy attacks, as described in the Enemies Attack section."

A single sentence paragraph that essentially says "Go back two pages earlier, figure it out yourself, then return to the phase at hand."
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Łukasz K
Poland
Warszawa
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I own Polish version of the game. AFAIK it was changed a little and differs from the original. But I can agree that the rules are really hard to understand. Knowing Polish history helps with understanding the intensions of many rules, but still it is pretty tough to learn the game and use the rulebook as a reference.

The game is great for recreating the political situation in Poland 400 years ago. Rulers were taking their family interest into account and the situation of the republic was not so important. It didn't end well. And it doesn't end well each time we play the game.

I think it is worth to try it. Give the rules another go
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Eugene
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Not to worry, I haven't lost faith in God's Playground just yet.
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Einmal ist keinmal
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garygarison wrote:
after 30 minutes of rules explanation and 3 hours of two completed game turns.

Wow, I admit the rules aren't the best, but they're not that bad.

I suggest you print off some of the rules aids here in the files section, particularly the one spelling out the Hapsburg/Ottoman rules.

For a rules explanation to last 30 minutes, it seems like your group was learning the game from the rulebook for the first time. And finishing only 1/2 of the game in 3 hours?!!! Your group must suffer from severe AP.
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Eugene
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You hurt my feelings. I printed out and read all FAQs/aids. I watched closely Tuttle757's very helpful instructional video on a round of play. I spent a couple hours reading and re-reading the original rules and Mantuanwar's very helpful rules re-write. When explaining the rules -- which I thought I had down rock solid -- I didn't even go into the 3rd and 4th turn minutiae about the Hapsburgs/Ottomans.

Quite frankly, God's Playground now supplants Perikles as the most god-awful set of rules to ever get out the door of Treefrog.
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Einmal ist keinmal
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Well, it looks like you did a good job preparing then. Well, now that you have 2 turns under your belt, a 2nd run through of the game should be a breeze, relatively speaking. Good luck, and do let us know how it turns out. Feel free to ask any rules questions that pop up.
 
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Kevin Whitmore
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Albuquerque
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Sorry you're having so much trouble with the rules. It's an opaque game. But I have been playing it, and am finding that there are lots of neat interlocking things. My first 4 plays or so were me just coping with the rules. With my most recent play, I felt like I was finally seeing the opportunities created by the rules structure to my advantage.

So good luck - I just wanted voice some encouragement to keep trying. I find this a very rewarding game, and worth the effort I poured into it to figuring it out.
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Eugene
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Played another one-turn teaching game with two others. Definitely feel I got it down now. A couple uncertainties about the Hapsburgs, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

It does seem like it has potential to be a good one.
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Tony Hamen
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Austin
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I feel your pain. I haven't even got the game to the table yet, and couldn't make it through all the rules. There are like 15 phases each turn in this game! Plus, when I have 3 I really like After the Flood a lot, and it seems to be a lot easier. I would like to try this one at BGGcon if anyone is interested.
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Eugene
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After two learning 2-turn games, finally played a full game tonight. And I still screwed up a couple things. This game should have come with a flowchart.
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Eugene
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gentlegiantglass wrote:
There are like 15 phases each turn in this game!

The first 10 are pretty straightforward. It's the ones following campaign attacks that give the most grief.
 
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Dennis Ku
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
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garygarison wrote:

Quite frankly, God's Playground now supplants Perikles as the most god-awful set of rules to ever get out the door of Treefrog.


I've had Perikles for several years now and STILL can't get through the yearbook. If Wallace wasn't my favourite designer, I wouldn't keep trying. One day, I'll figure it out.
 
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Gordon Watson
United Kingdom
Banstead
Surrey - United Kingdom
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ASL - other tactical wargames call it Sir.
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garygarison wrote:
Our favorite bit though was this innocuous sentence in the Enemies Expand phase:

"The rules governing these expansions are the same as those dealing with the initial enemy attacks, as described in the Enemies Attack section."

A single sentence paragraph that essentially says "Go back two pages earlier, figure it out yourself, then return to the phase at hand."


I (we) didn't have quite such an ordeal with the rules as you have had (although the Habsburg bits are a challenge) but the sentence you highlight is a real shocker - I think we played at least 2 full games before realising that any surviving armies we had got another go at defending against expansions, because of the line above.

A tremendous game though once you get through the rules - one of MW's best.
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Mike Smith
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God's Playground certainly is the work of the Devil, but thats not really because of the rules. The rules are just the work of some lesser minister of Hell residing in the Outer Circles.
If you penetrate through those you enter the Inner Circles where the Devil truly resides. He resides in the vicious, nasty and sordid screwovers that this game promotes while Poland truly goes to the Devil.
 
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Mike Smith
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When the screwover is carried out by your own best beloved 16 year old son, fruit of your loins, the pain is worse still.
 
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Kristian Thy
Denmark
Taastrup
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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By far the worst written rules I've ever suffered through. It seems innocuous enough at first sight, but we have played twice now and keep running into more and more cases not handled by the rules.

There won't be a third time.
 
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Eugene
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It's horrendous, but stick with it. Get the clarifications and FAQs in the files section.
 
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Kristian Thy
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Gunulfr ok Øgotr ok Aslakr ok Rolfr resþu sten þænsi æftir Ful, felaga sin, ær warþ ... døþr, þa kunungar barþusk.
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Yeah, even the FAQ is crap and raises more questions than it answers.
 
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Geoff C
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Translation issues? I was pretty excited when I saw The Lord of the Ice Garden and then quickly dumped it after trying to read the rules....ugh.
 
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Mike Smith
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I would modestly suggest using my makeover of the rules in the files section. These are not variant rules but an integration of errata/faq answers into the rules. There are 2 points in red which are my variants, but you can ignore/delete those.

At the time I gave them a fair bit of research and thought so am pretty confident that the do give you the "official" game in a clear and unambiguous form.
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