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Fortune and Glory: The Cliffhanger Game» Forums » General

Subject: Isn't 40 Danger cards too little? rss

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Thanasis Patsios
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After going through the PDF rulebook once, I got wondering: isn't 40 danger cards too little? 

From what I understand, every player should face at least 10 dangers / game. So in a 3 player game, 30 out of 40 cards will be played, using the "draw from the bottom" method. 
Isn't it going to end up repetitive after the second play? Even frequent shuffling won't solve the issue, it'll simply delay the fact to the 6th play maybe. 

I'm sure there are expansions planned, but isn't 40 cards too little of a number for the base game...?
 
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Yes... low quantity of cards but there are 370 cards in this game... more cards= more expensive....
I have play the game three times and dont sense repetitive..
 
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Mariano Rico
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I have 5 games under my belt and it indeed feels repetitive. I was also expecting the adventures to connect thematically somehow, but they dont so you get some weird combinations sometimes (like just climbed a mountain to go underwater afterwards...)

It is a good game with a great theme, but there is some room for improvement. Hope they surprise us with the expansion.
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Matt Smith
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While the danger/cliffhanger cards are a central mechanic in the game, and provide a lot of drama, it's not the only thing going on. You'll experience a radically different mix of artifact/adventure/location combos each game. A lot of the decisions are based on which adventures to attempt and when, so you'll see a lot of adventure variety from game to game.

You'll also see only a few allies/gear cards each game, so it will take quite a few plays to experience all of these cards yourself. Combine this with the varying enemies, events, city events, and the zeppelin dropping nazis all over the place, and each play should be very different.

And yes, I suspect FFP will put out an expansion soon. They like expansions.
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Thanasis Patsios
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I'm sure Allies and Gears and stuff will give each game something different. 

By "repetitive" I was referring to the Danger cards part, which is nevertheless the biggest part of the game from what I understand from the rules. 

I can imagine that in 5 player games someone will most certainly face the same Danger card twice if not more. For a game that depends on the theme, 40 cards is a very small number. I know they're double sided but when compared to say Arkham Horror and the number of encounter cards (base game), well, it's lacking heavily...
 
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Zenjoy
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I will agree with this. As to the argument "but there are X number of other cards", I think we could have done with a few less Events in exchange for a few more Dangers. You don't draw events much (as best we can deduce, you only gain one anytime you roll a 1 for movement), so that deck doesn't disperse as much and even then there are duplicates throughout that Deck of 45.

I would have recommended reducing the Events down by 15 (to 30) to have increased the Cliffhangers by +15 (to 55). Add more variety to a deck that is being used a LOT compared to a deck that barely decreases throughout a game.

That being said, I'm sure Jason and the FFrog team intend to bulk their dangers up big-time. I'm even hoping they create "Danger Decks" that are thematic to certain areas (e.g.: Desert, Ice, Mountain, Jungle, etc...) so that the variety increases further and the theme becomes even more active.
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Joshua Harris
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Remember though there is a limit at some point as to how many "things" there could be. There are car chases, boat chases, and airplane chases for example...staples of any action movie. There is a car chase scene in every single Indiana Jones movie. I don't think they ever felt repetative.

I guess we take the time to play out a little bit and describe the events of the car chase a bit more. Car chase after a mountain climb? You are racing down the perilous roads of the mountain passes. Car chase after underwater diving? You surface at the dock, steal some wheels, and goons are right on your heals, racing past fish markets and cargo crates.

Adding your own extra bits really stretch out the narrative. We have over a dozen plays, and I have seen dozens of car chases, but it always felt new and exciting each time based on the surrounding events.
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ID 12398 Yosif Videlov
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Yes, yet that i don't have the game, i can imagine sometimes dangers are being drawn out of place, Imagine being in the middle of Sahara to go underwater diving or the Ice Cracks in the jungle. Danger cards should be much more and should be location based so the theme is not cracked for example 1 deck for desert, 1 for mountains, 1 for water dangers, 1 for Ice ones. In that way there won't be serious deviations. Anyway the game has a great theme and maybe with the expansions this diamond will be polished arrrh
 
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Jason Sly
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yokoz wrote:
Yes, yet that i don't have the game, i can imagine sometimes dangers are being drawn out of place, Imagine being in the middle of Sahara to go underwater diving or the Ice Cracks in the jungle. Danger cards should be much more and should be location based so the theme is not cracked for example 1 deck for desert, 1 for mountains, 1 for water dangers, 1 for Ice ones. In that way there won't be serious deviations. Anyway the game has a great theme and maybe with the expansions this diamond will be polished arrrh

Seems like this would be an easy enough house variant to set up should you so choose. Just flip through the whole stack and make your own decks...maybe make some quick,sloppy labels on Post-Its or index cards.

Though I suppose it may make potential repetition even more rampant.
 
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Thanasis Patsios
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Cornbread46 wrote:
Remember though there is a limit at some point as to how many "things" there could be. There are car chases, boat chases, and airplane chases for example...staples of any action movie. There is a car chase scene in every single Indiana Jones movie. I don't think they ever felt repetative.


I'm perfectly confortable with a car chase during my "Adventure". It's the twice or thrice part in the same play I'm worried about.

As per the limit of such "dangers", I'm sure 40 cards don't even come close to exausting it. In comparison, one can play 6-7 plays of Arkham Horror (base game) and not encounter the same event. It's not as if they had more to work with, pulp adventure movies are endless.

Again, I feel we're getting the "expansion treatment" the hard way. The specific deck should be at least doubled keeping in mind the amount of use it sees.
 
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Zenjoy
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JRSly wrote:
yokoz wrote:
Yes, yet that i don't have the game, i can imagine sometimes dangers are being drawn out of place, Imagine being in the middle of Sahara to go underwater diving or the Ice Cracks in the jungle. Danger cards should be much more and should be location based so the theme is not cracked for example 1 deck for desert, 1 for mountains, 1 for water dangers, 1 for Ice ones. In that way there won't be serious deviations. Anyway the game has a great theme and maybe with the expansions this diamond will be polished :arrrh:

Seems like this would be an easy enough house variant to set up should you so choose. Just flip through the whole stack and make your own decks...maybe make some quick,sloppy labels on Post-Its or index cards.

Though I suppose it may make potential repetition even more rampant.


I suspect it will be one of the expansions for this game (would be a decent one took - housing only x4 decks of 40-50 cards). And I say this out of hope than anything. It would work. Facts are I've been saying this idea for a while and hopefully Jason is reading :D
 
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Mariano Rico
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Making different Adventure Decks for different type of locations could work. As well as making a Temple one (taking a cargo plane inside a cave??). I found the encounters in ToE not repetitive at all after quite a few plays (specially adding the expansion of course). You always went to each location not exactly knowing what would you find and every play feels really different.

Besides the thematic and gameplay weariness problem I also feel there is a strategic one. The adventures are completely randomized here and there is no way to plan ahead for an adventure. The only viable strategy for the game is to try and make the most balanced character possible so he or she can overcome most dangers with guarantees.

In ToE for example, you know what kind of encounters you will most likely find at each location, so you can do a bit of strategy and planning. Here is just a matter of card drawing, so the random element is dramatically increased.

I would also like to see different City decks for each city (at least the major ones) as that would add a lot of flavor, although I admit that is more of a wish, since the card count and decks in the table could be a bit crazy to implement that.

I think there is many ways to solve this and improve the game a lot, and wont be too difficult to do, so I have high hopes for the future. It is a very fun game with great components and a strong theme that most of us love, so it deserves a lot more love!
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Matt Smith
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yokoz wrote:
Yes, yet that i don't have the game, i can imagine sometimes dangers are being drawn out of place, Imagine being in the middle of Sahara to go underwater diving or the Ice Cracks in the jungle. Danger cards should be much more and should be location based so the theme is not cracked for example 1 deck for desert, 1 for mountains, 1 for water dangers, 1 for Ice ones. In that way there won't be serious deviations. Anyway the game has a great theme and maybe with the expansions this diamond will be polished arrrh

That "out of place" aspect had us laughing the most. We knew going into the game that anything could happen anywhere, so with a little suspended disbelief we enjoyed the occasional wierd combination of cards. Most of the time everything made sense anyway.

Even when I failed a Cargo Plane danger at a jungle temple adventure, it was easy enough to explain. I just claimed I decided to do some aerial reconnaissance of the temple grounds, when everything went wrong. I ended up crashing the plane into the temple, causing it to collapse on Cartwright. We all got a good laugh out of that (well, all except Cartwright).

Anyway, I completely agree we need more Danger/Cliffhanger cards, but give FFP some time. The game doesn't even hit the street until Sept. 13. Until we see an expansion, I highly recommend not shuffling the Danger deck everytime one is drawn. Go at least 20-25 deep before reshuffling the entire deck. That way players will see a good mix of dangers during a game session, but will have the full deck available in the latter part of the game, when everyone is racing to get that last few fortune needed to win.

EDIT - Typos
 
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matthew midgley
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Cornbread46 wrote:
Remember though there is a limit at some point as to how many "things" there could be. There are car chases, boat chases, and airplane chases for example...staples of any action movie. There is a car chase scene in every single Indiana Jones movie. I don't think they ever felt repetative.


Having played the game it's nice to that some Dangers, such as Car Chase, have two different outcomes.

I agree that Pulp adventures do have the same kinds of recurring dangers and it's good that Flying Frog have added a range of different outcomes, in the case of Car Chase we get fireball and driving over a cliff, but I can see that there could be a greater variety of outcomes; rolling the car, crashing, spinning out of control etc.
 
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matthew midgley
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... oh, I would love to see Danger decks themed for each type of location + a specific temple deck.
 
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James
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Can someone say expansions?
 
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Richard Smeltzer
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grahamj wrote:
Can someone say expansions?


I suspect Flying Frog will manage to.
 
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Justus Pendleton
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TheFlatline wrote:
yokoz wrote:
Yes, yet that i don't have the game, i can imagine sometimes dangers are being drawn out of place, Imagine being in the middle of Sahara to go underwater diving or the Ice Cracks in the jungle.


I've seen Republic-era serials where there was underwater diving in the desert or ice cliffs in the jungle. I have no problem with it. It's a frickin' serial adventure. It's supposed to be over the top and stupidly unbelievable.


I agree. If you can't picture this, then you aren't really familiar with the source material. It fits the theme well. Though, as a game, I agree that additional variety is probably a good thing.

(FWIW, you're never "in the jungle" are you? You're "in Peru", which actually has glaciers in addition to jungles; the locations on the board seem to cover a large amount of geographic space.)
 
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Jason Sly
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Acererak wrote:
Making different Adventure Decks for different type of locations could work. As well as making a Temple one (taking a cargo plane inside a cave??). I found the encounters in ToE not repetitive at all after quite a few plays (specially adding the expansion of course). You always went to each location not exactly knowing what would you find and every play feels really different.

After playing a bit, I definitely agree with the temple issue. If only one aspect of the board got its own deck, I think it has to be the temples. With all the other crazy dangers you face, you can at least imagine it's happening over your vast travels, like it was said, each space covers a lot of geography. Or you can imagine some dangers occurring on the way to that space where the artifact is or on your way out of the country.

But with temples, the way they are implemented, it's quite jarring and silly to have like, an encounter with people in the shadows, an ancient trap and then CAR CHASE! or CARGO PLANE MISHAP and then a puzzle. That same feeling of easy narrative doesn't exist with the temples because since you grab a fortune after each danger, you feel like you're inside the temple grabbing treasures off the walls as you explore. Some focusing of temple dangers would make it a much more satisfying, immersive element.
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Derek VDG
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Keep in mind that one of the suggested ways to use the Danger deck is to shuffle the deck each time a card is drawn, thus randomizing the Danger the player faces every time. Add to that fact that many of the Dangers have multiple versions with different Cliffhangers, and I don't think it will get too repetitive.

Re: Temples and dangers ... you can try thinking of the Dangers in a different light. For example, a "Car Chase" in the temple, might actually be using mining carts. A "Cargo Plane" danger might represent some weird ancient aerial mechanism, or perhaps even a giant bird. They don't have to be a literal "Car Chase" that uses actual cars. Merely an event sequence (like in the movies) that has the elements of the standard 'Car Chase' sequence.

That said, I think a "Temple Dangers" deck would be cool too.

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Laszlo Stadler
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dvang wrote:
Keep in mind that one of the suggested ways to use the Danger deck is to shuffle the deck each time a card is drawn, thus randomizing the Danger the player faces every time. Add to that fact that many of the Dangers have multiple versions with different Cliffhangers, and I don't think it will get too repetitive.


This makes it even worse. If the cards are shuffled back right after used, the chance that you'll see the same cards in the same game again are even bigger.
 
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Robert Drake
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They definitely need to break up the danger deck and make seperate terrain specific decks with some semicoherent theme to the choices and tests. Regions with multiple terrain types let you pick between the multiple decks for your next danger.

Right now, there is very little difference between the four adventure sites as they all pull from the same deck. And therefore there isn't much choice in which site you go after. You can't prepare ahead of time for anything because its all random random random. And the beautiful map feels wasted.

Also would like seperate city card decks by continent or at the very least major/minor cities would also help make the geography of the map matter.

All and all, a bit disappointed with the game. I was expecting AToE 2.0 but it feels more like a step back from AToE. Still had some fun though.
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Matthew Sigal
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I played my first game with my wife last night and, over the course of one "basic, competitive" variant run through, we must have seen 4/5s of the danger cards. So yeah, I definitely feel like the first expansion should expand that deck!

We didn't come close to really denting any of the other decks.
 
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simon cogan
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I agree that this deck really needed more cards - at the expense of some of the other decks actually - losing 2 or 3 City, Enemy, Allies and Gear would have made a 50 card Danger deck for example.

The campaign starts here then for some 'Homebrew' Danger cards...

Post 'em here and lets see those Cliffhangers!!
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