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Subject: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): Good Triumphs Over Evil rss

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The Original Thumb #50
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This is an 11 player roleset that Guenhwyvhar shared while we were playing fivers a couple of weeks ago. Guen is going to ride shotgun in the mod car too!

Team Evil

Normal Werewolf: (2) There are two werewolves who share a chat and influence the nightkill.

Traitor Werewolf: (1) There is one additional werewolf who is a part of wolf chat. This wolf also influences the nightkill.

All Werewolves reveal as werewolf at death while the priest is alive.


Team Good

Seer: (1) Views for wolf/not wolf. Receives random not wolf on N0.

Priest: (1) Passive priest - while alive, roles are revealed upon death.

Mason: (2) Two masons know each other and share a chat.

Villager: (4) Four villagers armed with pitchforks and a vote.

Lynch:

Lynch will be determined by majority with Longest Held Last Vote as a tiebreaker in case of ties.
Votes will be valid through 3:00 PM (votes made at 3:01 PM or later will not be valid.

Dawn:

All night orders are due at 5:00 PM with dawn following shortly after.

Nightkill rules

The nightkill will be determined by a vote by the wolves. In order for there to be a nightkill, two wolves must vote for the same victim. The vote will be based on the final NK orders for each wolf. Wolves may choose to make their votes "public" in wolf chat but it is not mandatory. Two wolves may target the other wolf for nightkill while there are 3 living wolves.

If there are only two wolves remaining in the game, the nightkill will be the latest order input prior to dawn. The wolves CANNOT target each other for the nightkill at this point.

At dawn, the results of the nightkill vote will be posted in the main wolf chat. i.e. 2 votes for ohgrande, 1 vote for Guenhwyvhar.

Wolfchats:

There will be a wolf den with 3 "side chambers". In other words, there will be a chat for all 3 wolves and each wolf will also have a private chat with each of his wolf partners.

Victory Conditions:

Team Good: Wins when all werewolves are eliminated.
Team Evil: Wins by achieving parity except for,
Traitor Werewolf: Wins by achieving parity AND eliminating normal werewolves.

Game Starts When Full
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Cassandra Project
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (0/11); SWF
Player List According to Cassandra:
Americanadian
baub64
Belash
Dake
danldan2
dbmurph22
dcorrin
rgatti
sarah55555
Tarrant
TommyDanger

11 players are signed up.

To sign up for this game go to
http://www.thecassandraproject.org/jeremy/werewolf/game/6950...
 
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The Original Thumb #50
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (2/11); SWF
This game is gonna be awesome - infighting amongst the evils!
 
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Thomas Q. Dangerpants, esq
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (2/11); SWF
I just signed up on Cassie. Only my 3rd game but sounds very interesting, indeed!
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Dan L
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (2/11); SWF
I just signed up on Cassandra.
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Dake Jimson
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (6/11); SWF
I just signed up on Cassandra.
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Jim
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (7/11); SWF
I just signed up on Cassandra.
 
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
Yay! People signed up for a game I'm modding in! Sweet....
 
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David Key: Totally Bouse
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
I don't really get how the traitor werewolf works. So he basically has to win by surviving to a final two situation?
 
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
lvoverride wrote:
I don't really get how the traitor werewolf works. So he basically has to win by surviving to a final two situation?


Correct. This becomes more likely to happen by the wolves attempting to bus each other in the main forum discussion. When there are two wolves left (the normal and traitor), the traitor wolf will have to convince the village to lynch the other wolf in order to win. If the normal wolf catches on, that one will have to convince the village to kill off the traitor wolf. Obviously, they shouldn't come right out and say "That one's the so-and-so Wolf" as that would out both of them, but I'm interested to see how this all shakes out.

To summarize: all three wolves count for evil parity, but the Traitor Werewolf only wins when parity is 1v1 and they are the only Wolf left alive.
 
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David Key: Totally Bouse
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
That's awfully tough on the traitor wolf.
 
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
lvoverride wrote:
That's awfully tough on the traitor wolf.


I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'd also say that it's no tougher than the Hunter win.

 
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David Key: Totally Bouse
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
lvoverride wrote:
That's awfully tough on the traitor wolf.


I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'd also say that it's no tougher than the Hunter win.



...which, in all of my games I've played on this site, has only ever "happened" once in a standard-sized game.
 
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Greg Wilson
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
lvoverride wrote:
That's awfully tough on the traitor wolf.


I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'd also say that it's no tougher than the Hunter win.


Thing is that the Hunter also wins with a standard Good win. Whereas the Traitor Wolf only wins from his special VC.

My all-neutral game keeps going on the back-burner because of balance issues like this. Boosting up the evils and dividing them could work out okay, but currently it looks like the Traitor Wolf is just flat-out inferior to the regular Wolves.

I assume that if the Traitor Wolf wins by hitting parity, the regular Wolves don't win as well?
 
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
BlackSheep wrote:
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
lvoverride wrote:
That's awfully tough on the traitor wolf.


I wouldn't disagree with you, but I'd also say that it's no tougher than the Hunter win.


Thing is that the Hunter also wins with a standard Good win. Whereas the Traitor Wolf only wins from his special VC.

My all-neutral game keeps going on the back-burner because of balance issues like this. Boosting up the evils and dividing them could work out okay, but currently it looks like the Traitor Wolf is just flat-out inferior to the regular Wolves.

I assume that if the Traitor Wolf wins by hitting parity, the regular Wolves don't win as well?


Correct again. Although it could be put in as a stipulation that Evil wins regardless, I don't think that would work since there would be no motivation for the Traitor Werewolf to be a traitor.
 
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Bob Menzel
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
I just signed up on Cassandra.
 
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Greg Wilson
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
I assume that if the Traitor Wolf wins by hitting parity, the regular Wolves don't win as well?


Correct again. Although it could be put in as a stipulation that Evil wins regardless, I don't think that would work since there would be no motivation for the Traitor Werewolf to be a traitor.


Yeah, shared wins won't work. If the Traitor can win with evil there's no real reason for them to fight, and if the Traitor can win with good then the regular wolves will get sold out.

It feels like the Traitor needs an edge, but the trick is finding one that doesn't destroy the good team's chances completely.

In Miller Hollow there's a White Wolf, who gets to eat another wolf every other night; fun but broken, and unusable in a smaller game. I think UWUE's Lone Wolf is just a regular wolf who can only win alone.
 
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The Original Thumb #50
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (8/11); SWF
BlackSheep wrote:
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
I assume that if the Traitor Wolf wins by hitting parity, the regular Wolves don't win as well?


Correct again. Although it could be put in as a stipulation that Evil wins regardless, I don't think that would work since there would be no motivation for the Traitor Werewolf to be a traitor.


Yeah, shared wins won't work. If the Traitor can win with evil there's no real reason for them to fight, and if the Traitor can win with good then the regular wolves will get sold out.

It feels like the Traitor needs an edge, but the trick is finding one that doesn't destroy the good team's chances completely.

In Miller Hollow there's a White Wolf, who gets to eat another wolf every other night; fun but broken, and unusable in a smaller game. I think UWUE's Lone Wolf is just a regular wolf who can only win alone.


The traitor is a tricky role; certainly not an easy one to play and probably won't be winning this set. I wonder if it would be more balanced if the traitor can win either with all 3 evils alive or as a lone wolf but not in a pairing. Any thoughts on that?

That being said, I think this roleset has the potential to be wacky, wild and fun. That's the main reason I want to see it played.
 
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Greg Wilson
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (9/11); SWF
Oh yeah, I think it'll be fun regardless. I'm just fiddling with balance, which I do all the time.

I'm reminded of a line from the instructions of an old LotR wargame I have:

"It is important that the Saruman player understands that he has little chance of victory. Once he realises this, both his enjoyment and his play will improve immensely."

The three-or-one could work. Would making the Traitor a full win-stealer be too much? So Traitor wins if he's alive when the wolves hit parity, regular wolves win if the Traitor is dead when the wolves hit parity, and the village wins if all the wolves die before hitting parity?

I should really try to hammer my all-neutrals game into shape for a playtest at some point.
 
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (9/11); SWF
Would it be a big deal for everyone to try the roleset like this first and see how it goes, and then I'll put the suggestions into the next one?
 
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Ryan Gatti
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (9/11); SWF
I just signed up on Cassandra.
 
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Sarah L

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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (9/11); SWF
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
Would it be a big deal for everyone to try the roleset like this first and see how it goes, and then I'll put the suggestions into the next one?


Let's do it!!!
 
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Greig
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (10/11); SWF
Let's get this thing started.
 
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Robb Effinger
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (10/11); SWF
Guenhwyvhar wrote:
Would it be a big deal for everyone to try the roleset like this first and see how it goes, and then I'll put the suggestions into the next one?


Perhaps you could balance it by, if the traitor wins, give the traitor two wins in Cassy.
 
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The Original Thumb #50
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Re: Betrayal at Eleven (Not a Perfect 11): In Signup (10/11); SWF
Belash wrote:
Let's get this thing started.


We'll get this started today with first lynch tomorrow??

Since this is Guen's first time modding, I'm going to try and walk him through game setup so dawn might be a bit off still but we'll get going soon.
 
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