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Subject: Grace brings Rupert and Tony closer to Jesus. rss

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lotus dweller
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14785501

"baptised... on the banks of the river Jordan, at the spot Jesus is said to have undergone the same ceremony."

"robed in white"

"one of Murdoch's closest friends"

Does nepotism require familial relationship?
Did JtB's head feature at the post-ceremony celebrations?

I feel ill.
 
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Donald
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"...Jesus takes two steps to the left."
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Paul W
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Okay....so I can understand not liking the close connection between Tony Blair and Rupert Murdoch.

However, you seemed to direct your comments primarily at the Baptism, and I'm not sure what's so outrageously offensive about participating in a religious ritual at a spiritually significant location.
 
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lotus dweller
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I find it creepy, a display of hubris and a grossly distorted sense of spiritual self-importance, and a terrible misunderstanding of baptism, for a very wealthy family and their rich and powerful friends to engage in such conduct.

This is the Rupert who oversaw the culture that nurtured News of the World phone hacking. This is the Rupert that enabled Al Q and made billions from 9-11.

Three months of sack cloth and ashes would be a more appropriate display.
 
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Michael Withstand
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It's their personal business actually I believe.
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Pinook wrote:
I find it creepy, a display of hubris and a grossly distorted sense of spiritual self-importance, and a terrible misunderstanding of baptism, for a very wealthy family and their rich and powerful friends to engage in such conduct.

This is the Rupert who oversaw the culture that nurtured News of the World phone hacking. This is the Rupert that enabled Al Q and made billions from 9-11.

Three months of sack cloth and ashes would be a more appropriate display.


I'm glad we have you here to be the arbiter of whether an expression of faith is genuine.
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lotus dweller
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I reserve my right to be sickened by people's personal business.

Why restrict one's range of (legal and ethical) response to gossip?

However I will respect your apparent attitude that, as you see this as their personal business, you don't feel entitled to comment.

But do keep off my lawn.
 
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lotus dweller
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fizzmore wrote:

I'm glad we have you here to be the arbiter of whether an expression of faith is genuine.
Well that makes it all worthwhile then - I've had a long cold boring day at work but hearing that I've gladdened the world of one fellow RSPer brings a warm glow to my heart.

If this is an expression of faith by these sods I find it even more sickening.
St Peter asked to be crucified upside down as he didn't feel worthy of dying the same way that Jesus did.
These schmucks however, feel entitled to have their daughter baptised at the place where Jesus was baptised.

If you need any more troublesome aesthetic or value judgements passed do feel free to seek my input. As you can see I am inclined to be harsh, but also, I hope, fair.

 
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Paul W
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I wonder where you get "entitled" from? I don't see anything in the article to indicate a sense of entitlement. From what you're saying, we must condemn all religious pilgrims for being so presumptuous as to want to walk in the footsteps of their forefathers.

Does your contempt extend to all who are baptized in the Jordan? Based on your reasoning so far, that would only be fair.
 
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lotus dweller
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fizzmore wrote:
....
Does your contempt extend to all who are baptized in the Jordan? Based on your reasoning so far, that would only be fair.
Ahhhh - I think I see your misunderstanding - you think I am aiming or claiming to be presenting a reasoned or reasonable position?

I ain't.
I ain't claiming any of reasoned, reasonable, consistent, logical, congruent, fair or thoughtful.

Like I said "aesthetic or value judgements".
And a visceral response.

PS Thanks for the opportunity to compare this baptismal revelry by the obscenely rich and powerful with a genuine religious pilgrimage. This lot were probably snorting coke the night before at the local 5 star eco-spa resort. And by next morning slipping away to Hawaii, Milan and Chang Mai in private jets.

 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Pinook wrote:
This is the Rupert that enabled Al Q and made billions from 9-11.


I'm anything but a fan of Rupert Murdoch, but enabled Al Quaida? (Made billions, don't know. There's been a positive feedback effect between the post-9/11 climate of fear and Fox News, the latter feeding off and encouraging the former. Rupert's made money that way. But I'm not sure if that amounts to billions extra. His main income stream is Sky, and that's not had the same boost.)
 
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Pinook wrote:
PS Thanks for the opportunity to compare this baptismal revelry by the obscenely rich and powerful with a genuine religious pilgrimage. This lot were probably snorting coke the night before at the local 5 star eco-spa resort. And by next morning slipping away to Hawaii, Milan and Chang Mai in private jets.


Ok, so you're just trolling...if you'd just said in your initial post "I think Murdoch is an asshole and will mock anything he does, even if I have to be deceitful to do so" that would've saved us both a lot of time.

Better yet, please post such tripe in a blog or something, and leave RSP to discussions of substance.
 
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fizzmore wrote:
leave RSP to discussions of substance.


Bwahahahahahah
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My name is Watt wrote:
It's their personal business actually I believe.


From the article:

Quote:
... Photographs of the event, which took place a few weeks before the UK general election, were featured in Hello magazine ...
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lotus dweller
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fizzmore wrote:
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Better yet, please post such tripe in a blog or something, and leave RSP to discussions of substance.
Its a forum - maybe the major beneficial outcome, in my opinion, of this forum is exposure to a broad range of attitudes and opinions.

Here is one attitude where conspicuous consumption by the rich and powerful is derided as aesthetically problematic.

I could just as easily accuse you of trolling by insisting on treating the presentation of a value judgement as if it was the presentation of a reasoned position.
 
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Dearlove wrote:

I'm anything but a fan of Rupert Murdoch, but enabled Al Quaida? ...
Terrorism of the 9-11 sort depends on the multiplier effect of the media for its effectiveness. KRM is either #1 or #2 in the news media game.

He enabled.
 
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Paul W
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Pinook wrote:
Dearlove wrote:

I'm anything but a fan of Rupert Murdoch, but enabled Al Quaida? ...
Terrorism of the 9-11 sort depends on the multiplier effect of the media for its effectiveness. KRM is either #1 or #2 in the news media game.

He enabled.


While you're at it, you may as well blame Boeing and the commercial airlines who were hijacked for making it possible. Or maybe the construction firms the build super-skyscrapers like the trade center towers.
 
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Paul W
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Pinook wrote:
Here is one attitude where conspicuous consumption by the rich and powerful is derided as aesthetically problematic.

I could just as easily accuse you of trolling by insisting on treating the presentation of a value judgement as if it was the presentation of a reasoned position.


If a value judgement has no reasonable basis, then it contributes nothing and should be derided. If it has a reasonable basis, that basis is what should be presented for discussion. Irrational jibes contribute nothing. If you wanted to make a point about conspicuous consumption, making non-sequitur insults doesn't really help your cause.
 
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fizzmore wrote:


If a value judgement has no reasonable basis, then it contributes nothing and should be derided. ...
You'll need to explain for me to consider this statement other than absolute tripe.

I like zabaglioni gelato more than butterscotch icecream. Passionate sex is great. Paris Hilton is a waste of space. Tom Cruise is a creep. The paintwork on my neighbours gable is terrible. And my geranium plant's stems are too angular.

Reasonable basis for any of these?

How did you come to think, "If a value judgement has no reasonable basis, then it contributes nothing and should be derided" is itself a reasonable position?

I'll point out that the expression of a non-reasonably based value judgement by a normal human does if fact always contribute the fact that the expresser is motivated to express that value judgement. This alone appears to make your claim factually incorrect.
 
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fizzmore wrote:
Pinook wrote:
Dearlove wrote:

I'm anything but a fan of Rupert Murdoch, but enabled Al Quaida? ...
Terrorism of the 9-11 sort depends on the multiplier effect of the media for its effectiveness. KRM is either #1 or #2 in the news media game.

He enabled.


While you're at it, you may as well blame Boeing and the commercial airlines who were hijacked for making it possible. Or maybe the construction firms the build super-skyscrapers like the trade center towers.
If Boeing had choices about how much oxygen they'd give to the terrorists after the attack and they'd made those choices which multiplied the power of the attacks then yes they too would be significant enablers.

There is a critical difference in the amount of blame to be attached to people depending on whether they made deliberate choices or were negligent or incompetent. Deliberate choices to significantly enable terrorists get you a reservation in Hell.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Pinook wrote:
Dearlove wrote:

I'm anything but a fan of Rupert Murdoch, but enabled Al Quaida? ...
Terrorism of the 9-11 sort depends on the multiplier effect of the media for its effectiveness. KRM is either #1 or #2 in the news media game.

He enabled.


That's ridiculous. First even if the multiplier effect were so and solely down to Rupert Murdoch, enabling refers to things that make other things possible. Publicity is an after the fact thing.

But suppose there were no Fox. You think two great big holes in Manhattan, ash clouds you could see from orbit, and three thousand people dead wouldn't be noticed? Even if there weren't Fox, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS and plenty of other international news organisations like the BBC and from just about every country on the planet.

Now if you wanted to blame Fox for the invasion of Iraq, at least you'd be making a point that could be argued. But 9/11? No.

(Incidentally we had some experience in the UK with "denying the oxygen of publicity" to terrorists, and I even saw a significantly disruptive event that I guess was due to a "warning" - the IRA used to mix up real and fake warnings - that didn't make the press as far as I could see. And it didn't work, and that on a smaller scale.)

 
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