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Subject: Cataclysm-scenario rss

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Lauri L.
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Me and my friend played Cataclysm co-op scenario some six times. We tried many different variations of teams, but none came even close to beating the scenario. The closest we came was the first/second card of the third part.

It seems to us, that the with two players the scenario is very difficult, mostly due to the fact that it does not scale very well between player numbers - even though it has been tried to make balanced.

Has anyone beat the scenario with two players? How? Other opinions?

But, great game nevertheless. I like my games rather leaning on 'too difficult' than 'too easy'.
 
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Emmanouil Karakostas
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A Cataclysm world event, should be difficult

Now, as for the post, i'm also having the same feeling, about scaling.
Neither player has enough time, to make a decent deck, to stand the cataclysm, so the scenario ends in about 15 minutes with the players losing.

maybe we have to try harder.
 
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Gary
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We've beaten this scenario two-player, but only by giving ourselves an extra turn before starting on the event deck (and even that was a very close call). If that doesn't work, make it two extra turns.









 
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Rich Chamberlain
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jellynut wrote:
We've beaten this scenario two-player, but only by giving ourselves an extra turn before starting on the event deck (and even that was a very close call). If that doesn't work, make it two extra turns.



Great tip. We've struggled as well due to the events come thick and fast so this may help.

I wonder if you could use the die to decide when the events happen?
Something like whenever you would resolve the next event roll the die - if you roll a Blank then you get no new event this round.

Thoughts?
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Frank Franco
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itchyrichy wrote:
jellynut wrote:
We've beaten this scenario two-player, but only by giving ourselves an extra turn before starting on the event deck (and even that was a very close call). If that doesn't work, make it two extra turns.



Great tip. We've struggled as well due to the events come thick and fast so this may help.

I wonder if you could use the die to decide when the events happen?
Something like whenever you would resolve the next event roll the die - if you roll a Blank then you get no new event this round.

Thoughts?


And if you roll 2 skulls you draw 2 events devil
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Cameron Hawkins
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I tried this scenario twice with 3, and didn't come close to beating it.

Then we tried is again, and basically cheated by taking extra turns, and ignoring attrition, and we still didn't come close.

However, Fantasy Flight is known far and wide for their amazingly thorough playtesting (e.g. Descent), so it is utterly unthinkable that there is any flaw in the game, like one that would make the 1/4 of the game scenarios unwinnable. It must instead be that we are all terrible at games.
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Christopher Taylor
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We beat it two-player, but just barely, as Elves and Uthuk. It got very tough towards the end of the event deck, and we only survived due to the Uthuk Chieftans. My Elves were pretty much thrown under the train.
 
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Frank Franco
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cameronhawkins wrote:
I tried this scenario twice with 3, and didn't come close to beating it.

Then we tried is again, and basically cheated by taking extra turns, and ignoring attrition, and we still didn't come close.

However, Fantasy Flight is known far and wide for their amazingly thorough playtesting (e.g. Descent), so it is utterly unthinkable that there is any flaw in the game, like one that would make the 1/4 of the game scenarios unwinnable. It must instead be that we are all terrible at games.


Holy shit, you mean you played it a whole THREE TIMES and you didn't master it? That's outragious. You should ask for your money back.
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TS S. Fulk
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I haven't tried any of this yet, but I've been thinking that you have to kill the Holy War as soon as possible. It looks innocuous, but having only 4 cards is a great hindrance for most and is crippling the Elves. The undead and humans should concentrated on destroying it as soon as possible (and the other 2 factions can too if they draw enough oomph).

One thing that has hurt us as well was that we were trying to get cities early (instead of fighting the Holy War). Then the Rage & Riots came out. A better strategy would be to forget cities until you have a good army engine that can handle Rage & Riots.

The Elves seem very week in this scenario, if you don't plan ahead for those big cards. I think I would get Pillage(s) early for them. Remove as many 1 gold cards as possible and try to build an influence engine using Sorceresses to get Naga's and Demons early. They need some heavy hitters.
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Brandt Sanderson
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My wife and I finally beat this after 20+ tries! It is very hard. We played Elves and Chaos. Thinning your deck is key.

With the elves she found it best to attack things with the archers( 1 strength) to refresh a city and then just let them die to attrition to get them out of the deck. Also later in the game stop buying gold cards or else that is all you will have.

As Chaos I used flesh rippers and berserkers early on to take out the 7 strength attackers and then lose them to being wounded. Later in the game I needed the 34 and 4 strength guys a lot more. For me, keeping guys in my hand by spending influence was clutch.

Even with all this strategy it took an early 5 gold draw and a late game blank die roll to make this our first win!

Good luck, it is a very frustrating and punishing scenario (double skulls = loss).
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TS S. Fulk
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thebrandt wrote:
My wife and I finally beat this after 20+ tries! It is very hard. We played Elves and Chaos. Thinning your deck is key.

Good luck, it is a very frustrating and punishing scenario (double skulls = loss).


Congrats!

Who would have thought that Corey would design an nearly unbeatable co-op game.

At least I love playing this scenario. Yes, it's brutal. Yes, there is luck in involved. But the combination isn't hopelessly frustrating (just get mad and want to try again, frustrating) like his other pure co-op is. I'll probably never play that game again, but I'll keep trying to stop the Cataclysm.
 
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TS S. Fulk
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My 10-year-old son and I beat it on our 4th try.

The demonkin and undead ruled the day. We got very lucky in the order of the events and were generally able to beat things down quickly. Marek had only 1 pt and I had 5 left when we drew the final event—Master of the Hunt (or whatever it is called). I was holding a demon, a dark knight, a necromancer and 2 reanimates in my hand and had lots of things in the discard pile. Marek did nothing but use influence to hold cards in his hand, then I crushed the enemy.

We sweated a little, but not as much as in the other games.
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Sam Collard
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Chiming in for the "it wasn't too bad at all" brigade. Tried once with two and once with three, lost both times (quickly, then near the end respectively).

Third time tried with two of us, Humans/Chaos, with Humans focusing on acquiring lots of silver (2 treasure cards), and buying mostly siege towers and archers. Chaos relied on 1/2 cost units and pillaged the Humans into better hands. Most cards that came up were dealt with in under a turn.

It was very close though (Chaos survived the last attack from the Mind Riders on 19 damage!). I think mostly it came down to knowing from the beginning we needed to get stuck straight into building powerful armies, which let us stay on top of stuff by dealing with it almost as soon as it came up. Essentially it was only cards of the "attack everyone" variant that gave us problems, since Chaos wasn't well equipped to handle them. Also, I think people underestimate archers and other units with destruction effects. They still have quite nice numbers!

Should probably also mention we know the game pretty well by now, having played a few competitive games of it also.
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Kris Ardianto
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Played the scenario 2 times in a row with 4 players and hell, we've got beaten all the way down. Now, last night i assumed that this one must be the hardest scenarios (having been played the other 2 scenarios except Rune wars) and when i look at this thread, well i found out that i was right.
I guess the key is to support each other, which somehow this method was completely vague by our group. How can we co-op with different deck and separate actions?
Now, the strategy tip in the rule book said that you can make use the tactic cards: pillage.
We somehow couldn't understand the main reason of this card and constantly ignored it. Now, with starting deck in the first turns it really hard to face the event deck. But i just realize that the first thing you must do is to go for pillage card. This pillage will constantly thinning and shaping you teammate's deck and this really works well with Daqan and Waiqar, maximized the reanimate and foot soldier units.
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TS S. Fulk
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vardamir wrote:
Played the scenario 2 times in a row with 4 players and hell, we've got beaten all the way down. Now, last night i assumed that this one must be the hardest scenarios (having been played the other 2 scenarios except Rune wars) and when i look at this thread, well i found out that i was right.
I guess the key is to support each other, which somehow this method was completely vague by our group. How can we co-op with different deck and separate actions?
Now, the strategy tip in the rule book said that you can make use the tactic cards: pillage.
We somehow couldn't understand the main reason of this card and constantly ignored it. Now, with starting deck in the first turns it really hard to face the event deck. But i just realize that the first thing you must do is to go for pillage card. This pillage will constantly thinning and shaping you teammate's deck and this really works well with Daqan and Waiqar, maximized the reanimate and foot soldier units.


You need thin decks to win. Pillage will thin out the worthless 1 gold coins (hopefully).

One of the keys is knowing who should do what and which events need hammering (even if they look not so bad at first).
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Kris Ardianto
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tssfulk wrote:
vardamir wrote:
Played the scenario 2 times in a row with 4 players and hell, we've got beaten all the way down. Now, last night i assumed that this one must be the hardest scenarios (having been played the other 2 scenarios except Rune wars) and when i look at this thread, well i found out that i was right.
I guess the key is to support each other, which somehow this method was completely vague by our group. How can we co-op with different deck and separate actions?
Now, the strategy tip in the rule book said that you can make use the tactic cards: pillage.
We somehow couldn't understand the main reason of this card and constantly ignored it. Now, with starting deck in the first turns it really hard to face the event deck. But i just realize that the first thing you must do is to go for pillage card. This pillage will constantly thinning and shaping you teammate's deck and this really works well with Daqan and Waiqar, maximized the reanimate and foot soldier units.

You need thin decks to win. Pillage will thin out the worthless 1 gold coins (hopefully).

One of the keys is knowing who should do what and which events need hammering (even if they look not so bad at first).


Yeah you're so right...
the more thin your deck is the more good cards in it.
Once there were 2 events that shows enemies. 1 with the STR of 5 that can be defeated after X times of X players and 1 enemy with STR of 7 that the resolution is randomly destroy 1 unit from each player's hand or when a player's turn he didn't battle the enemy, each home realm deals 2 damage. Now, from your opinion, which should we deal first?
Since we're playing with 4 players, then the 2nd enemy will kill us all within 2 rounds if all of us neglect it.
Thx.
 
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Kris Ardianto
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Okay, my recent post said that i played this scenario 2 times with 4 players and it's like hell...
I tried it again 3 times with 2 players and i guess it's better than 4 players game.
We played it with Uthuk and Waiqar (the most reasonable faction with the highest or strongest attack power in my opinion).
The way i see it, playing with more players gives you a disadvantage. Since some events required to sum the strength of the enemy or instant with the total number of players (which greatly decrease each player success to confront it).
The first stage of the event cards really annoying and overwhelming.

Invasion of The Abyss - Enemy with Str 7.
As you see, it has normal str than other enemy in other scenarios, but the effect really stroke hard.
Quote:
When there are 8 damage tokens on this card, the players lose the game. End of each player's turn: place 1 damage token on this card.
If you play with 4 players, then you only has less than 2 rounds to deal with this. (4 damage tokens per player x 2 rounds = 8 damage tokens). But if you play with 2 players, you can at least have 3 turns before this enemy finish the game. Which really brought you to conclusion that you can't defeat str 7 with your startup hands. If you play with 4 players, you will only have the chance to buy unit in the first turn and must deal with it in your next turn (if this card was drawn first, which is really possible). Now with 2 players you can have 2 turns to buy units and Waiqar unique ability of reanimante really shines on this one. Even the downside of reanimate is, it can be used in the first or 2nd turn, since the first would be maximum possible str is 5. And 2nd turn waiqar doesn't have a discard pile at the start of his turn.

Holy War - Enemy with str 5
This event is not deadly but it really frustrating, since you must defeat it several times based on the amount of players to get rid of it.
The problem is, when this card is in play, all players replenish their hand with only 4 cards, which greatly reduced the possibility to deal with another events.

Guardian Obelisk - Enemy with str 7
Not really powerful but still it's quite impossible to deal with str 7 in the first turn. And the card effect brings a dilemma.
Quote:
If a player does not attack this enemy during his turn, deal 2 damage to each other player's home realm. Resolution: Destroy 1 random unit from each player's hand.

Though the resolution can be negated with Naga, it really hard to gain Naga in early turns since it need 4 influence to spend. And the resolution also brings much of a dilemma since you must destroy a random unit, not card which is more important at the time to deal with another event.

Army of The Possessed - Instant
Quote:
The first player chooses a home realm for this card to attack. This card's strength is equal to 6 plus the number of players in the game.

Now with 4 players, one of us must deal with this card with str 6+4=10. If with 2 players, it would be 8.

The last 2 player games, we almost win the scenario. The last event was Master of The Hunt with STR 13 (which i would be able to defeat it), but my friend's home realm was destroyed before i could make a move.

Even it's hard like hell, but i like the scenario.
Once again a great game, small, not too expensive but could deliver a lot of great things in it... thumbsup
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We have won this scenario with my gf using Uthuk and Humans. I as Human was purchasing only Footmen and 2 Knights and didnt use influence at all (I conquered only 2 strongholds which I destroyed later to decrease event attack). Uthuk focused to obtain heavy hitters to kill Master of hunt in the end. We were lucky once when we needed the event not to kill anything on die and it didnt kill.
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Kris Ardianto
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ICaneus wrote:
We have won this scenario with my gf using Uthuk and Humans. I as Human was purchasing only Footmen and 2 Knights and didnt use influence at all (I conquered only 2 strongholds which I destroyed later to decrease event attack). Uthuk focused to obtain heavy hitters to kill Master of hunt in the end. We were lucky once when we needed the event not to kill anything on die and it didnt kill.


Wait a minute, did you mean neutral cities, not strongholds?
 
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Thanee
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One thing I am wondering is, whether you can "use" sieges in this scenario to *help* each other. Attacking a player-controlled city can be used to discard unwanted unit cards and replace them in addition to the regular draw steps.

Bye
Thanee
 
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Frank Franco
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Yes you may.
This is why they changed the rule regarding attacking cities (if you win them off other players you don't get them refreshed - otherwise that tactic would be too strong.)
 
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