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Subject: Crokinole Boards Comparison Review rss

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crokinole.dk Elwis Szypulski
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My apologies for the delay of review to everyone interested in this thread.
To be fair - I have waited to close a deal with one of the suppliers. I also has changed the form of the review to enclose more details. I hope you will treat the text with understanding forgiving my English, which is not my mother language.

Here you can find it, just click on it.

http://crokinole.dk/crokinole.dk/Horsens_Crokinole_Club_file...

Best Regards.
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Jonathan Harrison
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The link is dead for me. soblue
 
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
The link is dead for me. soblue


http://crokinole.dk/crokinole.dk/Horsens_Crokinole_Club_file...
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crokinole.dk Elwis Szypulski
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Hi Jonathan,

Please try again now.

Best Regards.
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Jonathan Harrison
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Elwis Szypulski wrote:
Hi Jonathan,

Please try again now.

Best Regards.

Yep, that's got it. Thanks!
 
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Jonathan Harrison
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I see Mayday has not revised their business practices since their last debacle:

Elwis Szypulski wrote:
First Glance - Esthetics
Actually board looks a bit toyish in comparison to other reviewed boards. But the main issue is that it’s also shoddy made. As soon as you pick it up It starts creaking. Too small holes for pegs (or vice versa), unevenness of the ditch, not properly screwed in bottom (sticking out screws), gaps in plywood, not properly cut veneer at 20’s hole are clearly visible and should be a subject of complain. Supplier enclose wooden box for pieces, with a scoring track on it, but scoring pegs don’t fit them. Quality rescue call: Mayday!Mayday! The board is built mostly of MDF. The underside looks different, not to say strange and “cheaper” than underside of the others. In my opinion lines shouldn't be painted directly on top of the surface. Really Deep 20’s hole with convex bottom also stands out. It is to make taking out of discs easier, but I find it to be controversial. Another vague matter is the surface. Mayday Games in Boardgamegeek and Ryan Metzler in his video review claim that the surface is indeed real wood, not sticker or veneer applied on the wood: http://boardgamegeek.com/image/962844/crokinole http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1QCTMkK3tE The surface of my board is a kind of “sticker veneer”, which is conspicuous on the first pic. bellow. To be honest I doubt my version is the Premium Hardwood edition, if it is indeed you wouldn’t call it Premium either Hardwood. The board I received seems to be very similar to previous edition boards I tried in Poland, and different than Hardwood Premium boards from the website or review. I shared my doubts (and photos) with a supplier, but haven’t received any matter-of-fact reply. On the next page you find another pictures referring to my explicit assessment.

It’s barely playable without waxing. Flicked pucks slow down inconsistently. It definitely requires waxing regardless of the assurance in the article description on Maydaygames website: ”...ensure your board is ready to go out of the box “. Waxing improves moves, however its playing surface is still not so consistent and predictable as the other boards. I give it 1.5 pts for for the surface before preparing and 4 pts for action after it : 2.75 pts. overall.

Adjusting Claims and Requests
Well, it is a long story. At the very beginning I had played straight with Seth before I ordered the board making him know that I wanted to avoid some failure-related troubles, but I didn’t. I failed a claim (6 issues!) because in my opinion this board was not fit for sale and play, but Seth seemed not to understand this fact. There were some ridiculous proposals, excuses and tips in first reply instead of proposal of exchanging good or refund. Among the others: minor imperfections of a top notch board, self fixing, offer to purchase some parts to the board, careful look, etc. which I found objectionable. After my unequivocal refusal Seth asked me to sand the board to a new “home” (???) and promised a full refund. It took many e-mails and some photos to finish this farce. I have just received some spare parts, which should fit the board. I doubt if it was an isolated case, because he published my reservations and the answers for them on the product website as FAQ right away. 2 pts [out of 5] is the most I can mark.

I don’t deny I saw some Maydaygames boards in normal condition, however they were not taken out from the package, but selected and prepared. There is a high probability that you would receive the board not fulfilling your expectations.

The pictures are horrible. Screw heads protruding from the underside, stickered playing surface...it's like Pete's experience all over again.

Thanks to your detailed review, I've decided on a Willard Pro. Sounds absolutely perfect for my needs.

Thank you for a truly excellent review. It's a credit to you and to BGG.
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Thank you for this very thorough review. Personally I myself have played on 2 of the 4 boards you tested, but this makes me very confident about the complete test, because I perfectly agree with everything you wrote about these. It would have been nice to read it on the geek though, so it would be easier to discuss it, but given the result for one of the competitors, maybe it is for the better this way.
 
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Jonathan Harrison
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wolfzell wrote:
Thank you for this very thorough review. Personally I myself have played on 2 of the 4 boards you tested, but this makes me very confident about the complete test, because I perfectly agree with everything you wrote about these. It would have been nice to read it on the geek though, so it would be easier to discuss it, but given the result for one of the competitors, maybe it is for the better this way.

Actually, I'd say exactly the opposite. Adding accurate impressions of products and retailers is one of the primary purposes of BGG. I highly recommend you post your review, with pictures, here on BGG as well.

Excellent review either way.
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Jonathan Harrison
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What's the contact info for the Willard boards? Is http://www.crokinolegame.ca/ the right place?

Never mind. It is.

New question: What colors of discs come by default with the Willard Pro? I'd like to order additional colors, but I don't know what I'll already be getting.
 
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crokinole.dk Elwis Szypulski
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
wolfzell wrote:
Thank you for this very thorough review. Personally I myself have played on 2 of the 4 boards you tested, but this makes me very confident about the complete test, because I perfectly agree with everything you wrote about these. It would have been nice to read it on the geek though, so it would be easier to discuss it, but given the result for one of the competitors, maybe it is for the better this way.

Actually, I'd say exactly the opposite. Adding accurate impressions of products and retailers is one of the primary purposes of BGG. I highly recommend you post your review, with pictures, here on BGG as well.

Excellent review either way.


Thank you Jonathan and Wolfgang for sharing your thoughts on this review. Sorry for impediments, I simply didn't know how to publish the file at short notice. Numbers-marks are subjective but illustrate our feelings and ratings for scientific minds ;-).

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crokinole.dk Elwis Szypulski
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HuginnGreiling wrote:
What's the contact info for the Willard boards? Is http://www.crokinolegame.ca/ the right place?

Never mind. It is.

New question: What colors of discs come by default with the Willard Pro? I'd like to order additional colors, but I don't know what I'll already be getting.


Yes, buddy. It is the right place.

With PRO come green-black pucks by default, I suppose. They look nice on the board. However Willard can offer you a lot of sets at your request, and he is still experimenting to satisfy his customers. Last time we received natural-black sets and they look really nice and are very playable.

Respect.
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Elwis, you made something spectacular!!
This review is the best review I've seen in my life, just amazing!!

I've already bought a Willard Pro Board, I'm glad to see that's a so-good board, even it's true that Willard said me that the shipping time is up to 5 weeks (in Italy).

Anyway, great work.

really a great work.

Regards

Fabio
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crokinole.dk Elwis Szypulski
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air show wrote:
Elwis, you made something spectacular!!
This review is the best review I've seen in my life, just amazing!!

I've already bought a Willard Pro Board, I'm glad to see that's a so-good board, even it's true that Willard said me that the shipping time is up to 5 weeks (in Italy).

Anyway, great work.

really a great work.

Regards

Fabio


Thanks a lot Fabio for your kind words. I tried to do my best and be totally frank with such Guys like you, Buddies, who like this game as much as me.

The game and reliable suppliers involved in it deserve popularity.

It is very nice to know that more, and more people from the South of Europe like Crokinole.

I think the idea of European Amateur Championships in the future is not groundless.

Best Regards,

Elwis
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Hélio Andrade
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Me and some friends bought 13 boards from Jeske (some Wintersonne models, other were Blue Moons). They all came perfect and all the buyers are highly satisfied with them, I highly recommend buying from them if you live in Europe.

Here's the URL for them - http://crokinole.de/
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Mine came with dark and tan discs. I bet that if you asked Willard nicely, he would supply you with whatever colors he has available.
 
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Mayday Games
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It sounds like Elwis may have a standard edition and not a premium edition and he said he would be satisfied to keep the board if we sent him a rubber/screw set to better fit pegs in the board. His issue with the pegs was that they did not go easily. We have found if they go in easily then they don't stay in easily. We suggested some light tapping with a rubber mallet to get them all the way down or simply twist them and apply pressure and they go in just fine.

We're glad Elwis has seen good boards as that is what most of our customers have seen as well and have been generally very happy with the boards. We will have them available at Essen and invite anyone to come take a look at them at our booth 12-97 to inspect them.

The major complaint that you have to wax the board seems pretty trivial, any crokinole board needs to be waxed to improve the speed. We are grateful for Elwis' feedback and would love to replace/refund the board as initially offered. We are sorry such private offers were met with ridicule both privately and now in the review. If there is some other recourse for what is viewed as an inferior board we'd love to hear it.

At 100,00 euros or less we believe it is an outstanding value and hope the hundreds of satisfied customers in Europe are happy with their purchases.
 
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Elwis Szypulski wrote:


Adjusting Claims and Requests
There were some ridiculous proposals, excuses and tips in first reply instead of proposal of exchanging good or refund. Among the others: minor imperfections of a top notch board, self fixing, offer to purchase some parts to the board, careful look, etc. which I found objectionable. After my unequivocal refusal Seth asked me to sand the board to a new “home” (???) and promised a full refund. It took many e-mails and some photos to finish this farce. I have just received some spare parts, which should fit the board. I doubt if it was an isolated case, because he published my reservations and the answers for them on the product website as FAQ right away. 2 pts [out of 5] is the most I can mark.


It's crazy that Mayday is still pulling this crap.

Edit= fixed quote format
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I think there has been some communication issues between Elwis and Mayday, we NEVER recommended and have NEVER recommended anyone sand their board. Elwis said he preferred to keep the board rather than return/refund it so that is what we did. I can post the entire thread of emails if Elwis wants. It just isn't so.

We are sorry the board came with some imperfections though. Here is the initial objections to the board per Elwis' email and what we said in reply:


Failures:

1. Pegs doesn't fit line holes (unless you use a hammer!) 2. Playing surface is unplayable unless you use wax.
3. 20 hole is not very bad finished: The veneer is not proper trimmed.
4. Wholes for scoring track on box definitely don't fit to scoring black post

Theses features disqualify the board as a product for sale and play as well, unless it was a joke.


Elwis,

Thanks for writing us, allow me to address your concerns and help if I can!

1. Pegs doesn't fit line holes (unless you use a hammer!) -You do not need to hammer, the pegs are designed to fit tight so you don't have to attach them permanently if you don't want. If you press down firmly while twisting them they will go in just fine. If they are still too tight you can use a pair of scissors and very lightly go around the inside of the hole just a bit with them to gently widen it. Our first run of Crokinole had holes that were just right but customers found over time that the pegs would get loose and wobble, which no one wants. You can also order our rubber/screw set if you would like, it changes the game completely and makes a nice rubber bounce when you play if you prefer, they are $5.95.

2. Playing surface is unplayable unless you use wax. -As mentioned in the product description and in the instruction book, all Crokinole boards play much better when you wax both the surface of the board and the discs. In the end no matter how nice the board if you don't wax it you will be playing wood on wood and the slide will not be smooth. You can get Carnauba wax from any auto supply store or even Walmart, though if you'd like I would be happy to send you some free of charge. The wax seals in the wood and protects it from inadvertent spills as well, so it will keep the board looking good for years!

3. 20 hole is not very bad finished: The veneer is not proper trimmed. -While we make every effort to ensure each board is top notch, no board is without some minor imperfections as these are made one at a time and not mass-produced in the traditional sense. There will be some small imperfections on each board but they should not effect game play at all.

4. Wholes for scoring track on box definitely don't fit to scoring black post. You should have received two smaller pegs for the scoring track, one white and one black, they are significantly narrower than the pegs for the board and may have fallen to the bottom of the box, please have a careful look in the scoring box and the shipping box the game came in and see if you can find them. If you can't we would be more than happy to send you out replacements ASAP.

Sorry for the confusion and let me know if I can send you Carnauba wax and some scoring peg replacements.

_________________________________________________________

Elwis Szypulski wrote:
Adjusting Claims and Requests
There were some ridiculous proposals, excuses and tips in first reply instead of proposal of exchanging good or refund. Among the others: minor imperfections of a top notch board, self fixing, offer to purchase some parts to the board, careful look, etc. which I found objectionable. After my unequivocal refusal Seth asked me to sand the board to a new “home” (???) and promised a full refund. It took many e-mails and some photos to finish this farce. I have just received some spare parts, which should fit the board. I doubt if it was an isolated case, because he published my reservations and the answers for them on the product website as FAQ right away. 2 pts [out of 5] is the most I can mark.


How does the above quote sound compared to our initial email to Elwis? I will leave it to you to evaluate it.

_________________________________________________________

Elwis wrote back:


1. I am not going to fix the pegs. Please picture the situation that you ordered it for birthday gift, how would you fill? It's a joke, man. These pegs should have fit. It shouldn't be my problem and recommending another purchase or self fxing is objectionable.

2. The surface - you are not right - I will give a quotation from the description of the product on your side:
"ensure your board is ready to go out of the box" but it's not. I exactly know how to prepare boards but all of our boards were ready to use without waxing. It doesn't even hold a candle to them in that term.

3. The hole for 20's is not well prepared and the edge is uneven. Please don't tell me about top notch boards and minor imperfections, cause I have seen "a few" and they simply blow this out of the water.

4. I have check the box.

I have got two alternative proposals:

1. You send me rubber/screw pegs for and 2 fitting post for scoring for free off course. I forget about this board and, case and company. It's wasting time and money, but maybe some kids can use it.

2. You send me money back for the board. I send the board back, and you bear the costs of the shipping.

It's up to you. please make me know about your decision. I would like to forget about this lamentable deal as soon as possible.



__________________________________________________________

I replied back:

We are happy to have you return it for a full refund. Give us a few days to find it a new home in Europe** and we will let you know where to send it and we will refund you in full along with the shipping.

I think perhaps you misunderstand us though, this board came directly from our warehouse in Germany and I have never seen it. I’m in the USA and not in Germany, I just had our warehouse send it to you.

I am sorry about the peg issue and am willing to send you some new ones but if you are not interested in the board we are willing to take it back for a full refund. Sorry the product was not to your liking, let me know if we can do anything else for you and we will send you the shipping info shortly!


**Before anyone gets annoyed about the return board for a new home in Europe let me say that we clarified that to mean that we would send it to Germany where we could use it just fine as a demo board at Essen since we ARE willing to wax it AND push in the pegs ourselves.

Sorry if this is upsetting, we were more than happy to take back the board and NEVER once said anything about sanding it down or anything "ridiculous". I feel that is a misrepresentation of our emails above and will leave it at that.


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Jonathan Harrison
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maydaygames wrote:
I think there has been some communication issues between Elwis and Mayday, we NEVER recommended and have NEVER recommended anyone sand their board. Elwis said he preferred to keep the board rather than return/refund it so that is what we did. I can post the entire thread of emails if Elwis wants. It just isn't so.

Elwis Szypulski wrote:
Adjusting Claims and Requests
There were some ridiculous proposals, excuses and tips in first reply instead of proposal of exchanging good or refund. Among the others: minor imperfections of a top notch board, self fixing, offer to purchase some parts to the board, careful look, etc. which I found objectionable. After my unequivocal refusal Seth asked me to sand the board to a new “home” (???) and promised a full refund. It took many e-mails and some photos to finish this farce. I have just received some spare parts, which should fit the board. I doubt if it was an isolated case, because he published my reservations and the answers for them on the product website as FAQ right away. 2 pts [out of 5] is the most I can mark.

Sorry if this is upsetting, we were more than happy to take back the board and NEVER once said anything about sanding it down or anything "ridiculous". I feel that is a misrepresentation of our emails above and will leave it at that.
Could it be, just possibly, that you're misreading "sand the board to a new home" for "send the board"... ? whistle
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Mayday Games
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Yes... I see that now. The SAND the boards a new home I read as a DIY project of sand the boards at home. I see that now. Sorry for the confusion.

From the 4 problems that we heard about in the initial email above we felt like 3 of them were no issue at all. We offered to send Wax and replacement scoring pegs (and did), and the wooden pegs going into the holes properly just took a bit of elbow grease or a light tap with a mallet. The slight imperfections for the 20 hole we viewed as a minor defect but were still perfectly willing to have the board returned for a full refund. In the end Elwis decided to keep the board and take us up on the replacement pegs and a rubber/screw set which fixed the pegs fitting issue. He declined the wax.

We just don't see this as being unreasonable, especially given that we were willing to take it back for a full and complete refund and pay shipping in EUROPE both ways.
 
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maydaygames wrote:
Yes... I see that now. The SAND the boards a new home I read as a DIY project of sand the boards at home. I see that now. Sorry for the confusion.

Actually, the wording was "sand the board to a new 'home'", as shown above and in the original PDF.
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Yes! Got it! Thanks!
 
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So, no comment on asking paying customers to send their defective boards to different customers? That is the thing that has really caused people a lot of worry about Mayday's Crokinole boards.
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jigmelingpa wrote:
So, no comment on asking paying customers to send their defective boards to different customers? That is the thing that has really caused people a lot of worry about Mayday's Crokinole boards.

Yes... shake

I don't expect one. The egregious misquotes and seemingly purposeful misunderstanding exhibited here are all the statement I expect. yuk

Returned, by the way.
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maydaygames wrote:
We are happy to have you return it for a full refund. Give us a few days to find it a new home in Europe** and we will let you know where to send it and we will refund you in full along with the shipping.

**Before anyone gets annoyed about the return board for a new home in Europe let me say that we clarified that to mean that we would send it to Germany where we could use it just fine as a demo board at Essen since we ARE willing to wax it AND push in the pegs ourselves.


I thought that about covered it. We had a warehouse in Portugal that we shut down a few months ago and our warehouse in Germany is not opening until after Essen, so we are relying on Queen Games to warehouse all of our product for a couple of months and needed to check with them about shipping it back to them as the whole thing was done on their good graces.

If you want independent verification of this then I can put you in touch with Queen. We were just trying to decide if we should send it to Queen or to either our German or Polish distributor, both of whom are going to meet us at Essen.

The guy REFUSED to return it to us so how is this an issue exactly? It never even got to that point.
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