Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Quarriors!» Forums » Variants

Subject: Versatile Assistant rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lonnie H
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here are the changes that I want to make to get more decision making into the game.

Assistant(when you get the pawn side) has three possible usages:
a) pay 1Q and he becomes the normal fighter (normal usage)
b) spend him (send to used pile) to cull a die from your active or used areas {he is taking out the trash}
c) spend him to gain another buy. {he is doing some purchasing for you}

-options b & c do not require the 1Q to activate him
-all "normal" culling when scoring is dropped. Only the Assistant can cull


Until I have play tested the Versatile Assistant more, the following ideas will have to wait to see if they are also helpful in making more meaningful decisions:

Other possible future options that I like from Markus (Saerleon) and would possibly add are:

1. Your first purchase is for the original cost, each additional die costs one more, e.g. second one costs +1, third one costs +2, ... { this addition cost is not incurred when the Assistant is making an addition purchase }

2. After you have rolled your active pool, you can re-roll any number of your rolled dice, but have to spend one active die to the used pile. This procedure can be repeated until there are no more dice left. Immediate effects can be still resolved before an additional re-roll, but if they require being spent, then they are removed from the active pool as usual.

Get those dice rolling.....

Edited to put an emphasis on Versatile Assistant variant

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamie Pollock
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your changes to the assistant are really very interesting! It seems like a clever way to introduce + buys and culling, while at the same time giving a more difficult choice to the typical early scoring, which can add up to quite a few points. I would say this is the best idea so far, though I'm not convinced the extra parts are necessary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Dewsbery
United Kingdom
Sutton Coldfield
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd suggest not dropping culling when scoring. Mostly because it would unbalance other creatures' costs (unless you just ignore cull when score for assistants - but I'm not a fan of creating special rules or exceptions).

That way, players have a choice between paying 1 quid and perhaps scoringkne Glory and culling a die next turn, or saving the quid, using the assistant, and culling this turn. This might be the stronger option, but games can be won or lost by a single point, and if assistants are spent in this way, presumably those which get summoned are more likely to score.

I like the idea. It also means that assistants actually assist. Someone ought to knock up a quick PDF of the assistant's card detailing the new options!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Blue Jackal
United States
Nowhere
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've read another idea, where assistants are the only dice that cull while scoring. This kind of improves the "buying multiple small dice" strategy since you don't cull as many dice, and big creatures don't cull.

I kind of like the idea of giving assistants the ability to cull and buy, however:

Culling is quite potent, so why is someone going to use the buy option - especially if you can get a 2nd buy for spending +1 Q?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Lambert
United States
American Fork
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lonster wrote:
2. After you have rolled your active pool, you can re-roll any number of your rolled dice, but have to spend one active die to the used pile. This procedure can be repeated until there are no more dice left. Immediate effects can be still resolved before an additional re-roll, but if they require being spent, then they are removed from the active pool as usual.


I really like some of the ideas you mention, but I think this one will break the game. It seems like it would be a great way to mitigate the luck factor, but I think it would actually make the luck factor larger.

In a lot of games I have played, someone gets a lucky early roll and is able to buy a large powerful creature (like a dragon). However they still have to have it come up as a dragon face in order for it to give them that easy victory they hope for.

I have played a few games where someone bought an early dragon and then they were only able to score it once the whole game because it kept coming up as 1 quid.

If they could just sacrifice a die to reroll their dragon die they would do it every time. It would turn those lucky big purchases into guaranteed victory. Anyone who could buy a dragon early I would be virtually guaranteed to get a dragon side every time it came out of their bag.

In that sense, I think the luck factor is one of the greatest parts of the game. When my opponent pulls a dragon or a death spell out of their bag I am terrified that my entire army will be crushed. But there is always a 50% chance that they will not roll what they want. That adds a very enjoyable tension to the game that would be gone if they could reroll so easily. That luck also helps to balance the great strength of those expensive dice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Dewsbery
United Kingdom
Sutton Coldfield
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Styro wrote:

I really like some of the ideas you mention, but I think this one will break the game. It seems like it would be a great way to mitigate the luck factor, but I think it would actually make the luck factor larger.

In a lot of games I have played, someone gets a lucky early roll and is able to buy a large powerful creature (like a dragon). However they still have to have it come up as a dragon face in order for it to give them that easy victory they hope for.

I have played a few games where someone bought an early dragon and then they were only able to score it once the whole game because it kept coming up as 1 quid.

If they could just sacrifice a die to reroll their dragon die they would do it every time. It would turn those lucky big purchases into guaranteed victory. Anyone who could buy a dragon early I would be virtually guaranteed to get a dragon side every time it came out of their bag.


I'm not sure that this is as big a problem as you make out.

Firstly, the dragon player has to retain at least some of his assistants - and if he has a dragon showing only quiddity, he might already be able to re-roll the dragon using the 3rd face of the assistant dice.

Secondly, he needs to draw an assistant in the same turn that he draws a dragon.

Thirdly, the assistant needs to end up showing either the immediate reroll (as the rules are published) or the creature side.

Fourthly, the player needs to use that die *and* still have enough Quiddity to summon the dragon.

Of course, it may still be to strong; it's the re-roll ability that worried me the most, too - especially as it is already *better* than that 3rd face immediate reroll (albeit that it doesn't cost a die to use). If it *is* too strong, how about only getting the reroll any dice ability (or the +1 buy?) if you expend a *summoned* assistant? Because then, the player has already spent a quiddity AND used a creature to secure that reroll, making getting a level 3 dragon out something of a challenge.

Playtesting is required, I think.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken B.
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, something needs to be done with this guy; I hope the expansion brings us a new Assistant.

We originally were culling basic Quiddity; now it seems the Assistants are the ones getting culled. The re-roll ends up being his only good face after the early couple of turns; rolling the Assitant guy sucks.

At least with the basic Quiddity you can count on Quiddity. Of course, those start going next.

We actively hate the little guy; I guess that's appropriate for a medieval intern.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lonnie H
United States
Everett
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lonster wrote:
Here are the changes that I want to make to get more decision making into the game.

Assistant(when you get the pawn side) has three possible usages:
a) pay 1Q and he becomes the normal fighter (normal usage)
b) spend him (send to used pile) to cull a die from your active or used areas {he is taking out the trash}
c) spend him to gain another buy. {he is doing some purchasing for you}

-options b & c do not require the 1Q to activate him
-all "normal" culling when scoring is dropped. Only the Assistant can cull


After some testing, I think I may use RDewsbery's advise and try the following changes:

Assistant(when you get the pawn side) has three possible usages:
a) pay 1Q and he becomes the normal fighter (normal usage), and can cull if he scores
b) spend him (send to used pile) to cull a die from your active or used areas {he is taking out the trash}
c) spend him to gain another buy. {he is doing some purchasing for you}

-options b & c do not require the 1Q to activate him
-all "normal" culling when creatures other than Assistant score is dropped. Only the Assistant can cull; either by scoring or taking out the trash(a or b).

In my test games, I didn't use option c very often because cards offered enough ways to get extra buys. But in some card mixes, I could see where this may be a nice option.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamie Pollock
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that's more on the right track. I'd be keen to see the difference this makes to gameplay. The slower culling rate should mean the game potentially lasts longer.

I do somewhat question the idea to have assistants able to cull as a separate task AND through scoring. With this I could imagine always going down the scoring route since in the first few turns it can be difficult for players to kill assistants. Having culling completely separate from scoring does introduce an interesting decision - to go for a score or think longer term and cull a die.

I believe there are only two cards that give +buys - one of the growth spells and one of the wizards, so it shouldn't be too rare to have a game where +buys aren't an option.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Bird
Australia
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lonster wrote:
b) spend him (send to used pile) to cull a die from your active or used areas {he is taking out the trash}


Out of interest, can he take himself out? (Although, given the changed ruleset, you might not want him to...)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jamie Pollock
Scotland
Edinburgh
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, that would seem fine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Dedeaux
United States
Fontana
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Lonster wrote:
Assistant(when you get the pawn side) has three possible usages:
a) pay 1Q and he becomes the normal fighter (normal usage)
b) spend him (send to used pile) to cull a die from your active or used areas {he is taking out the trash}
c) spend him to gain another buy. {he is doing some purchasing for you}

-options b & c do not require the 1Q to activate him
-all "normal" culling when scoring is dropped. Only the Assistant can cull


I like this variant. Though I think you should still have to spend 1Q to activate him for option B and C. This would eliminate the need to introduce another rule for spending Q for multiple buys.

Option C should cost 1Q just to keep the rule simple (you either activate the assistant or you don't). It is still helpful to use this action, right? Especially if it's the only way to cull those basic Q dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Dedeaux
United States
Fontana
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Lonster wrote:
Assistant(when you get the pawn side) has three possible usages:
a) pay 1Q and he becomes the normal fighter (normal usage)
b) spend him (send to used pile) to cull a die from your active or used areas {he is taking out the trash}
c) spend him to gain another buy. {he is doing some purchasing for you}

-options b & c do not require the 1Q to activate him
-all "normal" culling when scoring is dropped. Only the Assistant can cull


I just played two games with these rules today and I think they worked very well. However, I did play with a few other modifications: We played 3 players (both games) and went to 20 points. We also put out one of each spell and creature (so we used them all).

I used to assistant to cull quite often, while the other two players did not. Dragons did not seem to overwhelm (though nobody every passed an opportunity to buy one), however people often still bought the most powerful card they could and did not both to buy more than 1 card when they had the opportunity to do so. There were only a few occasions when players bought 2 cards instead of 1 higher costing card.

Still, the game felt much better to me. The first player did not win in either case.

I still would like to try my buyback variant to see if the lower costing dice would get purchased more often. Perhaps next time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.