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Subject: Rules are now online rss

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David Ausloos
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Because there were so many requests about mechanics/gameplay, the rules have been posted in the files section in 4 languages:
english, french, german and dutch.

Enjoy the read
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Bartosz Popow
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I obviously don't have the game yet, however rules are not absolutely clear to me; based solely on the rulebook itself. For example when a parasite appears in the same room as one of my characters, let's say due to repeated search. Does such parasite attack "on appear"? Or only in Parasite Phase?

There's also a sentence about having always 5 cards in hand. In my opinion it requires additional clearing. Why's that? Does this include Yes/No Check Cards?

Parasite phase. Let's assume I'm in a room with a parasite. I roll 3 - a parasite can't go down, because there's a wall. Does it attack in the room it stays at?

I assume I can perform 3 attacks in the same turn and on certain occasions even kill a character who's already had one wound, is that right?
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David Ausloos
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BartP wrote:
I obviously don't have the game yet, however rules are not absolutely clear to me; based solely on the rulebook itself. For example when a parasite appears in the same room as one of my characters, let's say due to repeated search. Does such parasite attack "on appear"? Or only in Parasite Phase?

There's also a sentence about having always 5 cards in hand. In my opinion it requires additional clearing. Why's that? Does this include Yes/No Check Cards?

Parasite phase. Let's assume I'm in a room with a parasite. I roll 3 - a parasite can't go down, because there's a wall. Does it attack in the room it stays at?

I assume I can perform 3 attacks in the same turn and on certain occasions even kill a character who's already had one wound, is that right?


1) As the rules state: parasites only attack during the parasite phase.
This allows players to safely position themselves to dodge parasite attacks if they manage their action points in an optimal way.

2) The 5 card limit is necesarry to avoid some extreme situations were players are running out of cards and are forced to trade. When you play the game you will understand.

3) A parasite in a room ALWAYS attacks present characters during the parasite phase. So if the parasite should stay put because it can't move it will attack the characters present.

4) Exactly. But be careful. Attacking team members is a very risky endaveour and it could well be that the whole team will turn against you.
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Kareem Koh
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Awesome. Will have a look tonight!
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Thanks a lot for the rules. The game seems really exciting !

Here are a few questions :

"Open all security doors":
when opened, security doors stay opened during the whole Team Phase and each player may benefit from this action, right ?

"Reveal Location":
the rules say: "This action can only be performed once per turn."
Is that once per turn per player, or is that once for all players together ?
For example, in a 4 players game, may this action be performed 4 times during the team phase (once per player), or only one time during the whole team phase ?

"Heat Scanner":
the description says: "a player with 2 or fewer infection cards is clearly infected because he started with 3, so he has obviously played infection card(s) in an attempted infection".
That's ok. But in the french rules (not in the english rules!), one strange sentence has been added after that: "But if he has an Antidot card, he may have been healed in the meantime ..."
The rules never talk about Antidot cards anywhere... and there is no Antidot description at the end of the rules.
Could you please explain us what that means ?

Thanks in advance
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Paul Beasi
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I figure most of the questions I have will be answered when I have the game in front of me, but one of the end game conditions is nagging at me:

Quote:
- All team members are infected (as proven by a heat scan of the base). This results in a victory for the Host and his infected comrades.


So.. if everyone gets infected, then everyone wins? Am I reading that correctly?

Because while thematically it seems to make sense since all of the infected people have been assimilated and are thus on the same team now, from a gaming standpoint it seems like the easiest way to "win" is to essentially lose.

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Felix Lastname
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seqiro wrote:
So.. if everyone gets infected, then everyone wins? Am I reading that correctly?
Because while thematically it seems to make sense since all of the infected people have been assimilated and are thus on the same team now, from a gaming standpoint it seems like the easiest way to "win" is to essentially lose.


Heh. Clever! I guess it is assumed that people will find it more rewarding to share a victory among fewer people; whether that is the case or not will surely be an empirical questions, to be answered anew by each gaming group.
 
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David Ausloos
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King Bing wrote:
Thanks a lot for the rules. The game seems really exciting !

Here are a few questions :

"Open all security doors":
when opened, security doors stay opened during the whole Team Phase and each player may benefit from this action, right ?

"Reveal Location":
the rules say: "This action can only be performed once per turn."
Is that once per turn per player, or is that once for all players together ?
For example, in a 4 players game, may this action be performed 4 times during the team phase (once per player), or only one time during the whole team phase ?

"Heat Scanner":
the description says: "a player with 2 or fewer infection cards is clearly infected because he started with 3, so he has obviously played infection card(s) in an attempted infection".
That's ok. But in the french rules (not in the english rules!), one strange sentence has been added after that: "But if he has an Antidot card, he may have been healed in the meantime ..."
The rules never talk about Antidot cards anywhere... and there is no Antidot description at the end of the rules.
Could you please explain us what that means ?

Thanks in advance


1) Correct. That is, all players who will have their action phase after the doors were opened. The once who already performed their actions that turn naturaly won't benefit from this situation, which renders the moment when the doors are opened crucial.

2) Once per player's turn. So a player may not perform this action more than 1 time in his action phase.

3) This is actually a snippet that reffers to a card from the bonus-expansion that will be availalbe for pre-order and at Essen, but that should have been removed in the french rules.
I spotted it too late but it should be neglected.
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David Ausloos
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seqiro wrote:
I figure most of the questions I have will be answered when I have the game in front of me, but one of the end game conditions is nagging at me:

Quote:
- All team members are infected (as proven by a heat scan of the base). This results in a victory for the Host and his infected comrades.


So.. if everyone gets infected, then everyone wins? Am I reading that correctly?

Because while thematically it seems to make sense since all of the infected people have been assimilated and are thus on the same team now, from a gaming standpoint it seems like the easiest way to "win" is to essentially lose.



The way it works is: you have two teams: the humans and the infecters.
But what makes each session unique is that at the end of each session you have a different situation: everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins. There is only one way for the humans to win: destroy the hive.
If they fail the infector side automatically wins.

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Moshe
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ausloosd wrote:
everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins.


What is the original team of the host?
Isn't that all players in that case?

It does sound a bit odd that you have to rely on your group playing "in-character", as the fastest/easiest way to winning is just getting everybody infected.
 
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Kevin Seachrist
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Looks like a sentence got cut short at the bottom of page 7 ("Sick Bay"). It says "From now on, healing here will trigger" and nothing else. I'm guessing it's a parasite placement, but not sure.
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Kevin Seachrist
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Starkiller wrote:
ausloosd wrote:
everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins.


What is the original team of the host?
Isn't that all players in that case?

It does sound a bit odd that you have to rely on your group playing "in-character", as the fastest/easiest way to winning is just getting everybody infected.


Despite the awkwardness of the "original team of the host" phrasing, which really does mean "everyone" no matter how I try to squeeze some nuance out of it, I think the basic tenet of the game should be simply this: play as well as you can for the "side" you are on. Originally Team Parasite has no players.

If someone values a "win" so blindly that they miss the thematic point of the game and try to throw it just to be on the winning team, I'd say don't invite that person to play anymore. Or, choice B (much more fun), shoot their characters as soon as you encounter them. That sends a fairly clear message on how they can correct their play style next game.
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Moshe
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Rykaar wrote:
Starkiller wrote:
ausloosd wrote:
everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins.


What is the original team of the host?
Isn't that all players in that case?

It does sound a bit odd that you have to rely on your group playing "in-character", as the fastest/easiest way to winning is just getting everybody infected.


Despite the awkwardness of the "original team of the host" phrasing, which really does mean "everyone" no matter how I try to squeeze some nuance out of it, I think the basic tenet of the game should be simply this: play as well as you can for the "side" you are on. Originally Team Parasite has no players.

If someone values a "win" so blindly that they miss the thematic point of the game and try to throw it just to be on the winning team, I'd say don't invite that person to play anymore. Or, choice B (much more fun), shoot their characters as soon as you encounter them. That sends a fairly clear message on how they can correct their play style next game.


I agree, and will definetly not want to play with anyone playing otherwise (in lots of other games, too), it just an odd concept.

What's stranger to me is that if you're the last man standing there's sort of a struggle of you against everybody - which may end in you getting infected and then winning. Sort of anti-climatic ..
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Clyde W
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Starkiller wrote:
ausloosd wrote:
everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins.


What is the original team of the host?
Isn't that all players in that case?

It does sound a bit odd that you have to rely on your group playing "in-character", as the fastest/easiest way to winning is just getting everybody infected.
No, the ORIGINAL host team wins. I haven't read the rules, but it seems obvious that which ever players (1? 2?) start as the host, will win if everyone gets infected. The players not infected at the start of the game win if they destroy the hive. The host team wins by infecting all the humans (and denies the human team a win).

Wait...except...crap... if the infected human players DON'T win with the host, why would they ever help the host?!
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Moshe
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clydeiii wrote:
Starkiller wrote:
ausloosd wrote:
everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins.


What is the original team of the host?
Isn't that all players in that case?

It does sound a bit odd that you have to rely on your group playing "in-character", as the fastest/easiest way to winning is just getting everybody infected.
No, the ORIGINAL host team wins. I haven't read the rules, but it seems obvious that which ever players (1? 2?) start as the host, will win if everyone gets infected. The players not infected at the start of the game win if they destroy the hive. The host team wins by infecting all the humans (and denies the human team a win).


Really needs clarification on that.
If it means just the original host - it's again odd as some players prefer NOT to infect others since that might make them lose the game ..
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Clyde W
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Starkiller wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Starkiller wrote:
ausloosd wrote:
everybody could be infected in which case the original team of the host wins.


What is the original team of the host?
Isn't that all players in that case?

It does sound a bit odd that you have to rely on your group playing "in-character", as the fastest/easiest way to winning is just getting everybody infected.
No, the ORIGINAL host team wins. I haven't read the rules, but it seems obvious that which ever players (1? 2?) start as the host, will win if everyone gets infected. The players not infected at the start of the game win if they destroy the hive. The host team wins by infecting all the humans (and denies the human team a win).


Really needs clarification on that.
If it means just the original host - it's again odd as some players prefer NOT to infect others since that might make them lose the game ..
Agree. I'm kind of sad now...the game already seems broken. How can one become paranoid if there's no chance that one will lose?! Either you're human and you destroy the hive or you get infected and you win with the other infected players. The only possible way to lose is to become infected and then have humans destroy the hive...you're now paranoid in the opposite direction. Ugh.

I like how in The Thing the players at the table never know how many other players may become infected. It might be 1 out of the 5, and it might be 4 out of the 5. No one is ever sure, and you can always plausibly deny that you are infected. In that game, all infected players win with the "host" (The Thing), but not all humans can get infected.
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It seems like you would need just the right situation, as the last human, to get yourself infected "safely". If you just walk up to infected folks you might easily get yourself shot or shanked instead.
 
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David Ausloos
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The point everyone is missing here is (and you will experience this when playing) that in most sessions right until the end nobody is 100% sure who is infected and who not. Therefore you are almost never sure what winning condition will be the most likely, and even then some situation can accur were your chance to win is suddenly there for what seemed before as a hopeless situation.

If the host plays it well he can mislead players in all manner of ways. I have had sessions were everyone supected everyone to be the host/infected except the host.
With that in mind you are rarely sure what is the best side to be on to begin with, but almost all players want to everything to destroy the hive. There are many tempting situations were humans see opportunities to win the game. Who will place the hive for example is a crucial moment in the game, as you can imagine.
This game must not be seen as a typical optimalization game were everyone plays a waterproof strategy leading to victory. Panic Station is all about a nerve-wrecking feeling of being confronted with the unknown, the paranoia of not being sure if you can trust the team member you just slaughtered a horde of parasites with.

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Clyde W
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But isn't it in the Host player's best interests to simply infect everyone? No way the hive can be destroyed then. (Again, you're right, we really must play before we can be asking these types of questions.) I'm just so curious!
 
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Kevin Seachrist
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clydeiii wrote:
Agree. I'm kind of sad now...the game already seems broken. How can one become paranoid if there's no chance that one will lose?! Either you're human and you destroy the hive or you get infected and you win with the other infected players. The only possible way to lose is to become infected and then have humans destroy the hive...you're now paranoid in the opposite direction. Ugh.


I think people are getting hung up on the win/lose thing and not focusing on the scenario. Yes, Team Parasite "wins" effectively when everyone loses, but the real point then is that the good guys have LOST. If you get infected, you've basically lost, but you want to make the game as difficult as possible now to ensure none of Team Humanity win without you. It's semantics regarding "win" and "lose", but again I'll state that if you can't grasp the spirit of the dynamic, don't play.
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David Ausloos
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Quote:
Agree. I'm kind of sad now...the game already seems broken. How can one become paranoid if there's no chance that one will lose?! Either you're human and you destroy the hive or you get infected and you win with the other infected players. The only possible way to lose is to become infected and then have humans destroy the hive...you're now paranoid in the opposite direction. Ugh.

I like how in The Thing the players at the table never know how many other players may become infected. It might be 1 out of the 5, and it might be 4 out of the 5. No one is ever sure, and you can always plausibly deny that you are infected. In that game, all infected players win with the "host" (The Thing), but not all humans can get infected.


What your reasoning so much proves is that you realy have to play a game to grasp how people play a game and how their choices relate to the abstract mechanics. Believe me, I have yet to play a game that is more paranoid-driven than PS. As I said in my previous comment, you are never 100% sure who is infected and who nut until the end of the game.
Sometimes even not that. Therefore it is almost impossible to voluntary choose a path o victory because it would be "the easiest way to win the game". Believe me, infecting other players is NOT always the easiest way to win the game. Far from it.
It takes a very cunning host to pull it off. I have seen more hosts fail than win if the human team plays as a group.
It is exactly how you describe The Thing is: you are never sure you can trust the person you are meeting in the same room. You can have a suspicion, but you are rarely 100% sure. Enter: paranoia.
Honestly, if you don't feel intense paranoia 10 minutes in the game you are not playing it correctly. I have yet to see a group playing the game who didn't feel the tension of each encounter.
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Doomclown wrote:
It seems like you would need just the right situation, as the last human, to get yourself infected "safely". If you just walk up to infected folks you might easily get yourself shot or shanked instead.


If you're the last human, you really want to destroy the hive, because then you are the only one who wins the game and all the other players lose! You can protect yourself for infections by playing gas can cards in a trade, however, you do need those also to destroy the hive. So in fact, you don't want to give them away to the infected team, because you know you'll never see them back... ;)
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David Ausloos
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Quote:
I think people are getting hung up on the win/lose thing and not focusing on the scenario. Yes, Team Parasite "wins" effectively when everyone loses, but the real point then is that the good guys have LOST. If you get infected, you've basically lost, but you want to make the game as difficult as possible now to ensure none of Team Humanity win without you. It's semantics regarding "win" and "lose", but again I'll state that if you can't grasp the spirit of the dynamic, don't play.


Exactly Kevin.
This makes it ver hard to explain the game from a psychological standpont to new players without actually play the game.
When you start the game as a team you want to win as a team...and emotionally the team for the players are the humans.
They want to survive the horrors of the station and they want to do everything to not get infected. Their mission is to destroy the hive and this heroic quest is what every player I have seen paying this game wants to achieve, even the most backstabby type of player.
And believe me...I have seen more than hundred different people play the game. And this is were it gets interesting. As the game progresses you only read singals: suspicious behavior of team members in certain locations, unlikely team decissions....but most of these are very hard to read and will often mislead you, leading to intense paranoia.
And that is just what is happening on the board. A talkative group will also add verbal accusations (sometimes in an attempt to mislead others) and try to convince others of the identity of another team member.
But the person accusing another player of being infected could just as well be infected himself. These conversations/negotiations can become pretty intense.

If a player becomes infected of course he will do everything to stop the others from destroying the hive...but that is harder to do than it might seem based on the rules. Don't forget that he is not 100% certain how well protected his victims are. If he fails to infect another player he could become a target of the human side himself if the victim can convince others he was just confronted with an infection attempt.
The fact players can eliminate a player on their own or as a team makes it risky for an infector to choose a safe victim to infect.

On both sides there are also countless strategies to win the game.
Trapping a player in an enclosed area an spawning parasites have been the grizzly end of numerous players. Someone can promise to help you out of a bad situation an pull out and betray the victim in the last crucial action phase. And the feeling when someone betrays you..someone you trusted the whole game and worked with you to survive the horrors of the station...that feeling is incredibly intense at times.
I just love it, since it creates such a cinematic moment of true emotions.

Ah well...all I can suggest is don't judge if the game works or not before playing it. his is not a perfect information euro, this is something far less linear and therefore can't be approached in a linear way reasoning that doing A leads always to B.
In many cases in Panic Station what you think is rarely the whole picture. Think of it as a 30-minute ride into the unknown, were a strategy or tactic you used in a previous session might not work in the next. It's all about the art of survival and adapting to the changing circumstances.

And right on Bart, the thrill of winning the game as a sole survivor...the last human in the station...against the army of infectors is an amzing thrill. I have achieved it a few times, and those sessions are brunt into my memory.
If someone would voluntarily give up and gives himself defeated by gettin infected, he's not playing the gae with the right attitude.




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Well, it's on preorder, so I'm definitely not judging anything until I play it, and I love paranoia games, so I'm really hoping to have a blast.
 
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Rykaar wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Agree. I'm kind of sad now...the game already seems broken. How can one become paranoid if there's no chance that one will lose?! Either you're human and you destroy the hive or you get infected and you win with the other infected players. The only possible way to lose is to become infected and then have humans destroy the hive...you're now paranoid in the opposite direction. Ugh.


I think people are getting hung up on the win/lose thing and not focusing on the scenario. Yes, Team Parasite "wins" effectively when everyone loses, but the real point then is that the good guys have LOST. If you get infected, you've basically lost, but you want to make the game as difficult as possible now to ensure none of Team Humanity win without you. It's semantics regarding "win" and "lose", but again I'll state that if you can't grasp the spirit of the dynamic, don't play.


I really don't like the argument for games you "have to play a certain way to enjoy". I never know how to strongarm/manipulate/force everyone to play the way that I think they should be playing. Not the kind of game I want to play.

"No, see you've lost but you should want to make things harder for the team you were on. No I know that doesn't make any sense but you should feel that way anyway. No, see just kicking back and doing nothing after you've lost is playing WRONG. Why won't you just play the game the way I think it was intended to be played?" ... an so on.

David seems to suggest that the uncertainty of Panic Station keeps you in the dark as to your position and hopefully avoids this situation.

I'm still having a hard time understanding what the motivation is for human players who become infected during the course of the game.
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