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Star Trek: Fleet Captains» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tests - greater-than or greater-than-or-equal to? rss

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David Etherton
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(based on the version of the rules posted here on BGG -- although given the typos I'm seeing, perhaps they're not final)

Seems like for unopposed tests, you succeeed if you match or exceed the target value.

For opposed tests like Breakaway and Evade, you succeed if you match or exceed the target value.

But for opposed combat tests, you only succeed if you exceed the target value?

I realize this is just a matter of perception -- if you look at it as the defender is testing their shields against your weapons fire, it's consistent. But since the rules are described from the point of view of the aggressor, it seems inconsistent. Furthermore, if the weapons test is at least double the shields, you do two damage, and if the test is at least triple the shields, you do three damage. But if the weapons test is equal to the shields, you do no damage?

Are the final printed rules clearer here?

Thanks,

-Dave
 
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Renaud Verlaque
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It seems to be the rules are clear even though they are not "consistent". For them to be be "consistent", it should be enough to match the target' Shields Test. Not a big deal, though.
 
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David Etherton
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Sigh - it's bad enough having to remember, for each game in my collection, whether I have to check greater-than-or-equal target number, greater-than target number, less-than-or-equal target number, or less-than target number. I was kinda hoping any given game would be consistent.

Oh well.

Game still looks like a hell of a lot of fun!

-Dave
 
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The Jigsaw Man
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I inevitably break ties in favor of the player over the board, and the defender over the attacker.

I'm willing to change policy if anyone wants to bother to look up the rule, though.
 
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Drew Chappell
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Renaud Verlaque wrote:
It seems to be the rules are clear even though they are not "consistent". For them to be be "consistent", it should be enough to match the target' Shields Test. Not a big deal, though.


Yeah, this is the one exception to the general rule about needing to match a target. It may not a big deal, but it's one more thing to remember. Would anything be lost by house ruling this so that matching the shields is considered a hit?

Can't wait for Sept. 21!
 
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Gabriel Kitterman
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I can't imagine why they created this inconsistency.
Most of the rules are quite intuitive but this detail is going to be annoying to teach and remember.

Why not just raise all the weapon scores by one and keep the rules consistent?
 
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Steve W
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I think it's worse than just "combat tests need greater than". I'm pretty sure it's "combat tests to inflict 1 damage need greater than". To do 2 alert shifts you need >= 2 x shields, to do 3 alert shifts you need >= 3 x shields .

It seems a kinda goofy decision to have done things this way.
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Lee Fisher
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MrThud wrote:
I think it's worse than just "combat tests need greater than". I'm pretty sure it's "combat tests to inflict 1 damage need greater than". To do 2 alert shifts you need >= 2 x shields, to do 3 alert shifts you need >= 3 x shields .

It seems a kinda goofy decision to have done things this way.


The rules don't read that way.
MrThud is accurate.

gratuitous summary:
unopposed systems checks: must => the target to win

opposed systems checks (including combat): must > target to win

Additionally doubling shield test = two damage
Tripling shield test = three damage

It seems pretty intuitive to me.
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Steve W
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Huh! Came up on a borderline roll the other day, must have misread it at the time. Thanks.
Okay, maybe don't have to get the eyes checked quite yet .

I do think it would have been more intuitive to make all tests consistent, though.
 
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David Etherton
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lfisher wrote:
MrThud wrote:
I think it's worse than just "combat tests need greater than". I'm pretty sure it's "combat tests to inflict 1 damage need greater than". To do 2 alert shifts you need >= 2 x shields, to do 3 alert shifts you need >= 3 x shields .

It seems a kinda goofy decision to have done things this way.


The rules don't read that way.

unopposed systems checks: must => the target to win

opposed systems checks (including combat): must > target to win

Additionally doubling shield test = two damage
Tripling shield test = three damage

It seems pretty intuitive to me.


How is that different from what he and I both already said? To do one damage, you must exceed the target. To do two or three damage, you must match or exceed 2x or 3x the target. Every other test in the game is match or exceed as well.

-Dave
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Lee Fisher
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etherton wrote:
lfisher wrote:
MrThud wrote:
I think it's worse than just "combat tests need greater than". I'm pretty sure it's "combat tests to inflict 1 damage need greater than". To do 2 alert shifts you need >= 2 x shields, to do 3 alert shifts you need >= 3 x shields .

It seems a kinda goofy decision to have done things this way.


The rules don't read that way.

unopposed systems checks: must => the target to win

opposed systems checks (including combat): must > target to win

Additionally doubling shield test = two damage
Tripling shield test = three damage

It seems pretty intuitive to me.


How is that different from what he and I both already said? To do one damage, you must exceed the target. To do two or three damage, you must match or exceed 2x or 3x the target. Every other test in the game is match or exceed as well.

-Dave


Sorry you are right.

The FAQ also breaks down the combat structure pretty nicely.
 
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