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Subject: Preordering No More rss

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Seth Pontiff
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So I have been anxiously awaiting Gears of War, Elder Sign, and Blood Bowl Team Manager. I preorderd all three with Cool Stuff Inc. They did receive Gears of War, but aren't shipping all my games until all three come in stock. However, according to Fantasy Flight's website, Elder Sign is still being sent to the warehouse. I just went to Amazon.com and noticed you can purchase Elder Sign brand new. What gives? And now it looks like Blood Bowl won't be out until the end of October so I have to wait until that comes in for CSI to ship me my games unless I pay for shipping for each item. What's the point in preordering?

 
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David Anderson
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I pre-ordered Elder Sign from Thoughthammer and have added to that order several times since then. I now have about 10 games ready to come my way! I did not make the mistake, however, of adding other yet to be released games. As many know, release dates for games are nebulous at best. Ordering two yet to be released games for delivery at the same time would be a great risk. Ordering three....well, I think you'll be lucky to get them all by October.

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Seth Pontiff
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turtleback wrote:
I pre-ordered Elder Sign from Thoughthammer and have been added to that order several times since then. I now have about 10 games ready to come my way! I did not make the mistake, however, of adding other yet to be released games. As many know, release dates for games are nebulous at best. Ordering two yet to be released games for delivery at the same time would be a great risk. Ordering three....well, I think you'll be lucky to get them all by October.



It's not so much that I ordered 3 prereleased games and possibly won't get them in October, it's the fact that I preordered a game to get it added to my order as soon as it comes in, but Amazon get's it before CSI? And FFG's website still has Elder Sign as still shipping? Either FFG's site is not updated yet or Amazon has some amazing connection.
 
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David Anderson
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I really think Elder Sign is in the distribution chain now. Everyone will have it within the week it just depends on their geographic location from the main shipping location. It takes 5 working days for a package to ship from coast to coast via UPS.
 
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Jay Lacson
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If you look closely, Amazon's estimated time to ship is 2-4 weeks (after you place your order).

Since Amazon listed the game as a release of 5 September, the long ship time is probably there to try and cover their butts.
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Seth Pontiff
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arcane220 wrote:
If you look closely, Amazon's estimated time to ship is 2-4 weeks (after you place your order).

Since Amazon listed the game as a release of 5 September, the long ship time is probably there to try and cover their butts.


Nice catch. That's kind of messed up though.
 
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Brandon
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
arcane220 wrote:
If you look closely, Amazon's estimated time to ship is 2-4 weeks (after you place your order).

Since Amazon listed the game as a release of 5 September, the long ship time is probably there to try and cover their butts.


Nice catch. That's kind of messed up though.


It's not exactly hidden. Its right on the page when you search for it, before you even click on the link to the actual product page. Theres absolutely no deception going on here.
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Jay Lacson
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Definitely not deception, but it was misinformation. A release date usually means that the vendor would have the item in stock, not just an arbitrary date.
 
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Brandon
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Amazon has never been a reliable source of release dates.

On top of that, Fantasy Flight (and many other publishers) doesn't list release dates. Theres 'At the Printer', 'On the Boat', 'Shipping', and 'In Stores'. Many retailers, especially ones who don't specialize in boardgames ala Amazon have to give a rough guess. You can't realistically ask any more from them than that.
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David Anderson
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Neverfade wrote:
Amazon has never been a reliable source of release dates.

On top of that, Fantasy Flight (and many other publishers) doesn't list release dates. Theres 'At the Printer', 'On the Boat', 'Shipping', and 'In Stores'. Many retailers, especially ones who don't specialize in boardgames ala Amazon have to give a rough guess. You can't realistically ask any more from them than that.


Wouldn't it be great if board games were more like DVD's or Cd's and you could count on release dates? We could have some awesome midnight release parties!

 
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Brandon
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Indeed, that would be great.
 
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Jason Sly
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turtleback wrote:
[q="Neverfade"]Wouldn't it be great if board games were more like DVD's or Cd's and you could count on release dates? We could have some awesome midnight release parties!


Sure, you could have that...like Flying Frog Productions is trying to do with "Fortune & Glory", due out officially on the 13th...but it would just mean that some places would have them boxed up in the back for days or maybe even a couple weeks, unable to put them on shelves until the street date at which point enough time was allowed for distribution to the whole country. So every store nationwide had them in stock.

It's not like new DVDs have just gotten off the truck and rushed to the shelves every Tuesday morning for their release. They've been sitting in the storeroom until they were allowed to sell them.

Designating a specific street date really wouldn't benefit us greatly. It doesn't benefit you any if the game is at your store, but the owner is obligated to keep it locked away until a date a week from the shipment arrived. Announcing a date months ahead won't make shipments from China obligated to get there in time or anything like that. As is, stuff goes on the shelf as soon as it arrives at the store, it's just unfortunate that some folks might be located more inconveniently than others.
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David Anderson
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JRSly wrote:
turtleback wrote:
[q="Neverfade"]Wouldn't it be great if board games were more like DVD's or Cd's and you could count on release dates? We could have some awesome midnight release parties!


Sure, you could have that...like Flying Frog Productions is trying to do with "Fortune & Glory", due out officially on the 13th...but it would just mean that some places would have them boxed up in the back for days or maybe even a couple weeks, unable to put them on shelves until the street date at which point enough time was allowed for distribution to the whole country. So every store nationwide had them in stock.

It's not like new DVDs have just gotten off the truck and rushed to the shelves every Tuesday morning for their release. They've been sitting in the storeroom until they were allowed to sell them.

Designating a specific street date really wouldn't benefit us greatly. It doesn't benefit you any if the game is at your store, but the owner is obligated to keep it locked away until a date a week from the shipment arrived. Announcing a date months ahead won't make shipments from China obligated to get there in time or anything like that. As is, stuff goes on the shelf as soon as it arrives at the store, it's just unfortunate that some folks might be located more inconveniently than others.


We'll have to agree to disagree. Having reliable release dates in my opinion would greatly benefit and legitimize our hobby. It seems very unprofessional to have games released in such a willy nilly pattern. Sure some vendors will have the product sooner and yes I have purchased DVD's from venders from their back rooms prior to their official release date, but for the most part the general public will look to advertised released dates and make plans accordingly. Then greater release date promotions can be planned.
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Jason Sly
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turtleback wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Having reliable release dates in my opinion would greatly benefit and legitimize our hobby. It seems very unprofessional to have games released in such a willy nilly pattern. Sure some vendors will have the product sooner and yes I have purchased DVD's from venders from their back rooms prior to their official release date, but for the most part the general public will look to advertised released dates and make plans accordingly. Then greater release date promotions can be planned.

Fair enough, differences of philosophy. All I know is, I'd be much more excited playing "Fortune & Glory" right now, rather than looking forward to any kind of midnight releases or release promotions in a week. Personally, I'm just interested in playing a highly anticipated game as soon as possible. And that's something that setting release dates would get in the way of.
 
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Chris Copac
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turtleback wrote:
JRSly wrote:
turtleback wrote:
[q="Neverfade"]Wouldn't it be great if board games were more like DVD's or Cd's and you could count on release dates? We could have some awesome midnight release parties!


Sure, you could have that...like Flying Frog Productions is trying to do with "Fortune & Glory", due out officially on the 13th...but it would just mean that some places would have them boxed up in the back for days or maybe even a couple weeks, unable to put them on shelves until the street date at which point enough time was allowed for distribution to the whole country. So every store nationwide had them in stock.

It's not like new DVDs have just gotten off the truck and rushed to the shelves every Tuesday morning for their release. They've been sitting in the storeroom until they were allowed to sell them.

Designating a specific street date really wouldn't benefit us greatly. It doesn't benefit you any if the game is at your store, but the owner is obligated to keep it locked away until a date a week from the shipment arrived. Announcing a date months ahead won't make shipments from China obligated to get there in time or anything like that. As is, stuff goes on the shelf as soon as it arrives at the store, it's just unfortunate that some folks might be located more inconveniently than others.


We'll have to agree to disagree. Having reliable release dates in my opinion would greatly benefit and legitimize our hobby. It seems very unprofessional to have games released in such a willy nilly pattern. Sure some vendors will have the product sooner and yes I have purchased DVD's from venders from their back rooms prior to their official release date, but for the most part the general public will look to advertised released dates and make plans accordingly. Then greater release date promotions can be planned.


I would think part of the difference trying to compare DVD releases and Board Game releases is the fact that many of the games have to be shipped by sea from overseas, whereas I would imagine there's DVD production facilities here in the states. From what I've seen in reading the forums, these guys are doing the best that they can, given the logistics they have to deal with.
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Tiger Wiccan
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arcane220 wrote:
If you look closely, Amazon's estimated time to ship is 2-4 weeks (after you place your order).

Since Amazon listed the game as a release of 5 September, the long ship time is probably there to try and cover their butts.


Someone on the official Forum (on the FF site) says that they already received their copy of the game from Amazon.
 
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Kevin Kam
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I also pre-ordered from Amazon and they had an estimated delivery date of this Friday, then I got an e-mail last night saying it was delayed 2-4 weeks and I wouldn't be getting it until early October. Cancelled my order, I'm hoping to pick it up at the FLGS this week. Amazon is bad about new board games for some reason.
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Keith Collins
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
arcane220 wrote:
If you look closely, Amazon's estimated time to ship is 2-4 weeks (after you place your order).

Since Amazon listed the game as a release of 5 September, the long ship time is probably there to try and cover their butts.


Nice catch. That's kind of messed up though.


My game is arriving from Amazon today (I have a tracking number shoing it out for delivery). I think the 2-4 weeks is due to they already shipped all of their initial stock.
 
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Adam D.
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As an Amazon pre-orderer, that just sucks because I also got the it's-delayed a few weeks email. You'd think in this day and age they could count how much product they will be receiving and in what order people bought it. It's not a big deal if they had said originally that it wouldn't be until the end of September, but to send an email out that I get on the day it was supposed to hit my door. well, harrumph I say, harrumph.
 
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Sorry, that really stinks.
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Kharnel wrote:
I also pre-ordered from Amazon and they had an estimated delivery date of this Friday, then I got an e-mail last night saying it was delayed 2-4 weeks and I wouldn't be getting it until early October. Cancelled my order, I'm hoping to pick it up at the FLGS this week. Amazon is bad about new board games for some reason.


I've received this kind of Amazon update for past game pre-orders, only to have the game show up a few days later. shake
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Kelly Overholser
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copax wrote:
turtleback wrote:
JRSly wrote:
turtleback wrote:
[q="Neverfade"]Wouldn't it be great if board games were more like DVD's or Cd's and you could count on release dates? We could have some awesome midnight release parties!


Sure, you could have that...like Flying Frog Productions is trying to do with "Fortune & Glory", due out officially on the 13th...but it would just mean that some places would have them boxed up in the back for days or maybe even a couple weeks, unable to put them on shelves until the street date at which point enough time was allowed for distribution to the whole country. So every store nationwide had them in stock.

It's not like new DVDs have just gotten off the truck and rushed to the shelves every Tuesday morning for their release. They've been sitting in the storeroom until they were allowed to sell them.

Designating a specific street date really wouldn't benefit us greatly. It doesn't benefit you any if the game is at your store, but the owner is obligated to keep it locked away until a date a week from the shipment arrived. Announcing a date months ahead won't make shipments from China obligated to get there in time or anything like that. As is, stuff goes on the shelf as soon as it arrives at the store, it's just unfortunate that some folks might be located more inconveniently than others.


We'll have to agree to disagree. Having reliable release dates in my opinion would greatly benefit and legitimize our hobby. It seems very unprofessional to have games released in such a willy nilly pattern. Sure some vendors will have the product sooner and yes I have purchased DVD's from venders from their back rooms prior to their official release date, but for the most part the general public will look to advertised released dates and make plans accordingly. Then greater release date promotions can be planned.


I would think part of the difference trying to compare DVD releases and Board Game releases is the fact that many of the games have to be shipped by sea from overseas, whereas I would imagine there's DVD production facilities here in the states. From what I've seen in reading the forums, these guys are doing the best that they can, given the logistics they have to deal with.


That, and differences in production. CDs, DVDs, and video games are all just a plastic box with a disk (or cartridge, for DS/3DS games) and some paper materials inside. Every single DVD uses the exact same box dimensions and usually the same box color, with the only difference being a slip of paper folded around the box for a cover, all conforming to the same industry standard. There's a few odd cases (larger boxes for collector's editions or TV show releases, larger packages with extra merchandise, etc), but for the most part it's all the same.

Board games, on the other hand, are all different. Different size boxes for each company, and vastly different contents. Even the die-cut cardboard has to be different for each individual game. Aside from card size, there's no such thing as an "industry standard" when it comes to board game manufacturing, and even card size is hardly standardized across all games. All those differences mean it's hard to accurately predict how long it will take to make a print run of a specific game, whereas DVDs are all so alike that it's easy to make a prediction of how long it'll take to make a print run - just look at past print runs of the same size.

So, honestly, it makes a lot more sense to just give a ballpark figure for a game's release and sell it as soon as it's ready.
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Ah, I still remember when I realized how completely screwed up boardgame preordering was. "What, it said September! Why isn't it shipping?"

Hell, two hours ago an order was delivered to my house I ordered in January. I've got another order held up by a game which may or may not actually, technically, exist.

Such a great hobby!
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Fryd Pickles wrote:
So I have been anxiously awaiting Gears of War, Elder Sign, and Blood Bowl Team Manager. I preorderd all three with Cool Stuff Inc. They did receive Gears of War, but aren't shipping all my games until all three come in stock. However, according to Fantasy Flight's website, Elder Sign is still being sent to the warehouse. I just went to Amazon.com and noticed you can purchase Elder Sign brand new. What gives? And now it looks like Blood Bowl won't be out until the end of October so I have to wait until that comes in for CSI to ship me my games unless I pay for shipping for each item. What's the point in preordering?

:(


Give it some time, it isn't really in anyone's hands yet. Amazon.com is just being a bit coy. Believe me Coolstuffinc.com will do you right - when I preordered Castle Ravenloft, Coolstuff had it to my door on the stated release date (now this was WotC and not Fantasy Flight, and WotC abides by their releases dates, once set in stone).

I have Gears and Elder Sign pre-ordered too, and I'm anxiously awaiting ES for the order to ship. But Coolstuffinc will get it around the same time Thoughthammer and Troll and Toad get it. Patience grasshopper.
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Seth Pontiff
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baelthazar wrote:
Fryd Pickles wrote:
So I have been anxiously awaiting Gears of War, Elder Sign, and Blood Bowl Team Manager. I preorderd all three with Cool Stuff Inc. They did receive Gears of War, but aren't shipping all my games until all three come in stock. However, according to Fantasy Flight's website, Elder Sign is still being sent to the warehouse. I just went to Amazon.com and noticed you can purchase Elder Sign brand new. What gives? And now it looks like Blood Bowl won't be out until the end of October so I have to wait until that comes in for CSI to ship me my games unless I pay for shipping for each item. What's the point in preordering?



Give it some time, it isn't really in anyone's hands yet. Amazon.com is just being a bit coy. Believe me Coolstuffinc.com will do you right - when I preordered Castle Ravenloft, Coolstuff had it to my door on the stated release date (now this was WotC and not Fantasy Flight, and WotC abides by their releases dates, once set in stone).

I have Gears and Elder Sign pre-ordered too, and I'm anxiously awaiting ES for the order to ship. But Coolstuffinc will get it around the same time Thoughthammer and Troll and Toad get it. Patience grasshopper.


Thank you, sensei. I shall be patient.

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