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Subject: Add "Designer" to the infomation on a game version rss

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Herb
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With the addition of versions into the database there is a quirk. If a game has two versions (eg from two different companies), it is possible that the games have two different designers. But versions don't have a designer field.
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Werner Bär
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If they have different designers, doesn't that mean that the games are different, and should have different entries?
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Herb
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Werner,

That should have been part of the question I guess. It seems hard to define a clear line between different games and different versions of a particular game. Most cases are clear cut, but some always become a judgement call.

In part many of the "abstract" strategy games have thin themes. It seems to me that the guy who created the theme is the designer.

Herb
 
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Russ Williams
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I don't think someone retheming a game while preserving the same rules is the "game designer". Perhaps that person is the "developer" or "art designer" or "artist" or "marketer"...?

Especially in your example of an "abstract" game - the game itself is the entire thing that was designed and is important, not the theme. E.g. Confusion: Espionage and Deception in the Cold War was an abstract game originally, but the new edition put a cold war theme and art on it, but I rather doubt the person who made that decision to give it a cold war theme would consider themselves the "game designer".

Even with a themed game which gets rethemed, the original designer remains the game designer. E.g. there is a new Polish version of Boomtown with identical rules to the original, but a totally new theme (pirates instead of the old west). Still, the Polish pirate-themed version continues to identify Bruno Cathala and Bruno Faidutti as the game's designers.
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Herb
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I'll guarantee you that as some of games now listed are merged into versions that the multiple designer problem will happen. Probably not frequently, but it will happen.

I'd agree that get getting a game translated into a new language doesn't mean that there is a new designer.

All in all this probably would happen so infrequently that the answer might be to just leave the games as two separate games.
 
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Russ Williams
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herace wrote:
I'd agree that get getting a game translated into a new language doesn't mean that there is a new designer.

But my examples were about changing theme, which you suggested does mean a new designer. (The fact that one of the two example changed themes I gave was by a Polish publisher is tangential coincidence.)

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All in all this probably would happen so infrequently that the answer might be to just leave the games as two separate games.

I think indeed it's quite infrequent that it's really a new "designer" just because a new theme or otherwise new version appears.

It seems to me that people use "game designer" to refer to the creator of the actual rules systems, not the art or component design or language of rules translations etc etc. And if the rules themselves are changed, then it becomes a new game and will thus have its own entry in the database and its own designer.
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Herb
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Well, if the rules changed '''significantly''' then it would get a new game. Problem is to define significantly. Look at '''Score Four'''. There are actually numerous small rules variations. The equipment is interchangeable.

For Connect 4 the rules are probably closed together. There is a slight hitch in that there is a 6x6 version "given away" by Burger King as a toy to add to kid's meals. Same rules but really a different board.
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Russ Williams
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herace wrote:
Well, if the rules changed '''significantly''' then it would get a new game. Problem is to define significantly.

That is true, alas. E.g. Hive includes a version for the newly released version "Hive Carbon" which comes with the Mosquito and Ladybug expansions, so it indeed has new pieces and rules that the original game doesn't have. I suppose that's a fairly common occurrence, that a new version includes something that was an expansion to the original version. If the expansion had been designed by someone other than the original game's designer, then that would be an interesting little definitional dilemma.
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