Recommend
17 
 Thumb up
 Hide
80 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

A Few Acres of Snow» Forums » Strategy

Subject: British strategy: going for early money then besieging like mad rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Alan Paull
United Kingdom
HUNTINGDON
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was requested to put this in a strategy thread for ease of discussion. Sorry for the delay! From here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/7359567#7359567.

I've tried the following as a new British strategy (equivalent to your French thinning here). It works very well if your opponent is unsuspecting:

Turn 1: Home Support
Turn 2: Reserve any two of New Haven, Norfolk, Pemaquid, St Mary's [draw the remaining 2 cards]
Turn 3: Reserve another one of the 4 aforementioned location cards and Merchant for 6 [giving 13 or 11 money; draw all your discards]
Turn 4: Merchant for 6, Home Support, Merchant for 6 [23 or 25 money; draw all your discards]
Turn 5: Buy siege artillery, Home Support, besiege Port Royal
Turn 6: Buy regular infantry, Home Support, reinforce siege [if necessary]

By between turns 6 to 10 you should have taken Port Royal. This depends on what the French did in turns 1 to 4 (but NOT what they do in 5 to 10).
Then, get lucky and immediately draw Port Royal (!); or alternatively wait a round to draw it. Besiege Louisburg, if you're lucky before it's been fortified. Take Louisburg in similar fashion.

Then develop like mad. All other actions should be responses to French moves, such as purchasing stuff to ambush with or to block threats to things you'll want to develop.

I hope this isn't a broken strategy. However, I do have a counter-strategy or two.

Edit: removed stupid reference to Intendant and Settler - brain went wrong somewhere.

2nd edit to correct my arithmetically challenged assessment of Brit money.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Paull
United Kingdom
HUNTINGDON
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There have been some comments in the other thread. However, I think that discussion here might concentrate on approaches to the problem from French and British stand-points, not just reactive moves presuming no adjustment from the British.

Reflection on the recent tournament 7-0 result in favour of the British in relation to this strategy might be enlightening.

What about an equivalent French early strategy, going down to Trader + 4xFurs?

BenthamFish
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Schwieger
United States
Eugene
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Brits don't have access to an Intendant, only the French.

I do like a fast attack on Port Royal and Louisburg. It leaves several dead cards in the French hand, and even if it doesn't lead to Quebec's capture, seriously puts a hamper on the French game.

Edited to correct misunderstanding-oops!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Jamet
France
Paris
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alan Paull wrote:
I've tried the following as a new British strategy (equivalent to your French thinning here). It works very well if your opponent is unsuspecting:

Turn 1: Home Support
Turn 2: Reserve any two of New Haven, Norfolk, Pemaquid, St Mary's [draw the remaining 2 cards]
Turn 3: Reserve another one of the 4 aforementioned location cards and Merchant for 6 [giving 18 or 16 money; draw all your discards]
Turn 4: Merchant for 6, Home Support, Merchant for 6 [28 or 30 money; draw all your discards]
Turn 5: Buy siege artillery, Home Support, besiege Port Royal
Turn 6: Buy regular infantry, Home Support, reinforce siege [if necessary]

By between turns 6 to 10 you should have taken Port Royal. This depends on what the French did in turns 1 to 4 (but NOT what they do in 5 to 10).


Thank you Alan

EDIT: Did you pay for the Home Support at turn 1? I think not. If I make no mistake, at the end of turn 3, you should have 13 coins.


Interresting but we French, will not stay inactive!

What if the French reply is:
Turn 1: Besiege Pemaquid
Turn 2: Reinforce the siege with Montreal / Buy Coureurs de bois
Turn 3: Win the siege at Pemaquid (settle with Québec) – Buy Fortification / Put Bateaux in reserve
Turn 4: Trader: win 6 coins / buy Home Support (draw 4 cards)
Turn 5: Fortify Pemaquid / ambush with Coureurs de bois
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Jamet
France
Paris
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A more likely situation:

Turn 1:
British: Buy Home Support
French: Put Bateaux in reserve

Turn 2:
British: Reserve any two of New Haven, Norfolk, Pemaquid, St Mary's [draw the remaining 2 cards]
French: Besiege Pemaquid with Infantry (+1) / Buy Coureurs de bois

Turn 3:
British: Reserve another one of the 4 aforementioned location cards and Merchant for 6 [giving 13 coins; draw all your discards]
French: Reinforce the siege with Québec (+2) / Buy Fortification

Turn 4:
British: buy Infantry / Home Support / defend siege with Infantry (0)
French: Trader (win 8 coins) / buy Home Support (draw 4 cards, reshuffle, draw 1 card)

Turn 5:
British: buy Militia (not enough money for Infantry), Home Support, besiege Port Royal (with Boston, a ship, and Militia) (0)
French: Reinforce the siege at Pemaquid with Louisbourg and Coureurs de bois. (+2)

Turn 6:
British: buy Militia (not enough money for Infantry), Home Support, defend siege at Pemaquid with Militia (+1)
French: buy Infantry / Defend siege at Port Royal with Fortification (-1)

Turn 7:
British: buy Militia (not enough money for Infantry), Home Support, Reinforce siege at Port Royal with Militia (0)
French: Home Support (draw the Infantry) / Reinforce the siege at Pemaquid with Infantry (+3) / Trader (win 8) (draw 4 cards including Home Support)
Now, the French have 7 cards including Home Support, 8 coins, +3 on the siege track at Pemaquid, 0 on the siege track at Port Royal.
The British has no money and no more Militia.
I think the French are in a way better position than the British.

At turn 5, the British may decide to defend Pemaquid. In this case, the French fortify Port Royal.

The British may decide to lose Permaquid. In this case, the French besiege Boston shortly after.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Jamet
France
Paris
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Artillery opening
The Artillery opening

Turn 1:
British: Buy Artillery
Frogs: Put Bateaux in reserve

Turn 2:
British: Merchant for $6 / Buy Home Support
Frogs: Besiege Pemaquid with Infantry (+1) / Buy Coureurs de bois

Turn 3:
British: Merchant for $5 / Buy Infantry
Frogs: Reinforce the siege with Québec (+2) / Buy Fortification

Turn 4:
British: defend siege with Artillery (-1) / Put Pemaquid in reserve
Frogs: Retire from siege (put Infantry back in the Empire Cards deck) / Trader for $8 / buy the free Infantry

Turn 5:
British: Home Support / From Boston, lay siege to Port Royal with Infantry (1) / Merchant for $6
Frogs: Fortify Louisbourg / Coureurs de bois for ambush (and pray for removing the Artillery)

Turn 6: (Artillery not lost in the french ambush)
British: Home Support (if lucky) / Reinforce the siege at Port Royal with artillery (4) (shock and awe!) / Merchant for $6
Frogs: Trader for $6 / buy Home Support

Turn 7:
British: Win siege at Port Royal, settle Port Royal / buy Infantry / Put Norfolk in reserve
Frogs: Put Port Royal in reserve / buy Native Americans or Militia

With the artillery and two infantries in their deck, the British have a good momentum. The French have started building a defensive position. Future is uncertain.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Jamet
France
Paris
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HannibalUltor wrote:
The Brits don't have access to an Intendant, only the French.

I do like a fast attack on Pemaquid and Louisburg. It leaves several dead cards in the French hand, and even if it doesn't lead to Quebec's capture, seriously puts a hamper on the French game.

Edited to correct misunderstanding-oops!

Do you mean a british attack on Port Royal and Louisbourg?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Paull
United Kingdom
HUNTINGDON
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pyjam wrote:


Thank you Alan

EDIT: Did you pay for the Home Support at turn 1? I think not. If I make no mistake, at the end of turn 3, you should have 13 coins.



Correct - memory is a very rough and ready thing. The idea is that by end of turn 4 you have 25 money (unless pirated). Sorry I forgot to check the maths! This allows purchase and use of Siege Artillery (11) plus 2 Reg Inf (14).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Cauet
France
Paris
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To counter the English besieging like mad, taking Fort Beausejour and raiding Port Royal or Halifax with Coureurs/Blue Native American, the time to fortify Louisbourg is one of the option (the early siege of Pemaquid another one) to slow down the English a lot.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Paull
United Kingdom
HUNTINGDON
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's becoming clear that there are a few good choices and counters here. Obviously if the French respond in some suitable way during the setup of the Brit money machine, then the Brits can change tack slightly. I think the principle of the approach may stand up though.

I don't think an immediate French siege of Pemaquid will cut it. The French will NOT take Pemaquid like that, because the Brits don't discard or cut their military/ship cards, they merely reserve them. This means that the balance of forces is as per start (6:4 in French favour), and the Brits can very likely buy new stuff quicker than the French, as they're making a slim deck money machine.

I did caveat the strategy with "if your opponent is unsuspecting"!

My own response to the Brit strategy (which has to be in turn 2 at the earliest) might well be to fortify Port Royal and Louisburg and buy Coureurs de Bois. That gives potentially +4 to a siege and makes the strategy of quickly taking Port Royal unviable ("unsuspecting opponent" remember). However, what about the Brit money machine in any event? Starting off the game with loads of cash and a slim deck seems like a pretty good idea, even if you've traded the loss of a few turns to the French.

What really matters is what the French do with those 'extra' actions that the British have 'wasted' reserving cards, and of course what the British follow up will be. It seems to me there are plenty of opportunities for the French to make mistakes there.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fabrice Dubois
France
La Garenne Colombes
Hauts de Seine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alan Paull wrote:
What really matters is what the French do with those 'extra' actions

Thanks to his lead at point, the best thing the French have to do is to expand through the lakes region (or in the center of the map) in order to win quickly by placing all his villages or towns. The latter requires neutral settlers cards and certainly governor, intendant and home support cards to recycle and optimize his deck to be able to reach this goal.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Pyjam wrote:
The Artillery opening

Turn 1:
British: Buy Artillery
Frogs: Put Bateaux in reserve
More like...

British: Buy Artillery
Frogs: Draft Coureurs de Bois or Green Native American for purposes of Ambush

If the French do this, it should strike fear into the heart of the British. Their deck is so small that they've essentially wasted 8 bucks right from the get go, unless they can do the "Home Support to add the just-purchased Artillery into the siege" trick.

I also agree with the suggestions of settling Fort Beausejour for purposes of raiding. What good is Port Royal to the English if they can't ever use its card to get to Louisborg? Meanwhile, the French get ever so closer to 12 points raided away and an easy, quick win.

If the French player sees the English tip their hand buy putting into reserve the towns needed for the expansion strategy, the French counter is go native on them, pure and simple.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenneth Stein
United States
Toledo
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In soloing this as the Brits, I drafted a couple of Indians as protection for the military, plus as a threat to the Fr. infantry. Perhaps take out Ft. Beau as well? I know, more cards means a stickier deck, but this should be some good insurance.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kenstein wrote:
In soloing this as the Brits, I drafted a couple of Indians as protection for the military, plus as a threat to the Fr. infantry. Perhaps take out Ft. Beau as well? I know, more cards means a stickier deck, but this should be some good insurance.
Exactly. By drafting a single Green Native American as French, you've forced the English to play on your terms, not theirs. That is what you want. Draft more. Force them to draft more. Then draft priest. Force them draft Leader. Draft the other Priest and your Blue Native American. Now it's full on Native Warfare at its finest, and the French will win this.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Schwieger
United States
Eugene
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes of course. Will edit again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew E
United States
flag msg tools
mbmb
I think that's what the French need to do, but it won't work for the initial siege. The British can do the entire first siege (whether it's in Permaquid or Port Royale) without ever exposing anything to an ambush.

Since the British can ignore the ambush threat for the initial buildup, I think the French have to also ignore other avenues and pursue a single-minded buildup, until they run out of infantry. At that point, the French can no longer keep up, and so will want to try and win at ambushing, now that both sides have substantial ambushable forces that will be re-entering their decks, once the French lose the siege.

I think the question is how well the British can defend themselves from those ambushes, and how much damage the ambushers will do to each deck's ability to do other stuff. I feel like the British deck ought to be able to support more indians since their money engine is only 3 cards rather than 5, but on the flip side, the French don't actually need tons of money after they've bought all their military. Maybe they ought to cut the money engine out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Paull
United Kingdom
HUNTINGDON
Cambridgeshire
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AndrewE wrote:
I think that's what the French need to do, but it won't work for the initial siege. The British can do the entire first siege (whether it's in Permaquid or Port Royale) without ever exposing anything to an ambush.

Since the British can ignore the ambush threat for the initial buildup, I think the French have to also ignore other avenues and pursue a single-minded buildup, until they run out of infantry. At that point, the French can no longer keep up, and so will want to try and win at ambushing, now that both sides have substantial ambushable forces that will be re-entering their decks, once the French lose the siege.

I think the question is how well the British can defend themselves from those ambushes, and how much damage the ambushers will do to each deck's ability to do other stuff. I feel like the British deck ought to be able to support more indians since their money engine is only 3 cards rather than 5, but on the flip side, the French don't actually need tons of money after they've bought all their military. Maybe they ought to cut the money engine out.


You beat me to it :-). Your first paragraph is exactly the point I was going to make. This French response is equivalent to conceding Port Royal early on.

It's nearly what happened the second time I tried this British strategy, except I was able to also grab Louisburg before the raiding started. Owing to the French fatter deck, it takes a while to circulate the raiding cards back into hand. I lost 2 Regular Infantry to the raiding, but it didn't matter, because I was easily able to buy them back, and beat the French on the expansion / development run in.

This can happen because it is just too tempting for the French to expand quickly eastwards, clogging up their deck with not great cards. Going east early can make it very difficult to develop Montreal and Trois Rivieres, which are essential for the town race.

My own view on this is that the French have to stop the fall of Port Royal, or else they're relying on a British mistake. Port Royal is an 8-point swing to the British. If Louisburg goes as well it's an 18-point swing and pretty much over. If the British take Port Royal, then neutralise the military and the Indians, they've got a significant edge. If the French prevent the fall of Port Royal and use the extra actions to develop their initial VP sites, then they'll have the edge.

Like other strategies, the execution of this British one depends on what the French do to counter it. I suspect that, as in Dominion and other deck building games, purchase of a single wrong card could be fatal. For example in some circumstances if the French buy the second Settler.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Williams
United States
Doral
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have been testing a similar British strategy recently, and it has been successful so far. Attack Port Royal on the first turn, and never let up. I have tried defending against this plan, and found it to be highly dependent upon the luck of the ambush. Having a dead Port Royal card is bad, and adding dead Louisbourg card makes double bad. If the Brits do this, the French must abandon all other forays and focus on preventing the loss of Acadia, because it is just 1(PR), two(LB), three(Quebec) and game over. And as Alan says, one wrong card can be fatal.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew E
United States
flag msg tools
mbmb
topdeckgames wrote:
I have been testing a similar British strategy recently, and it has been successful so far. Attack Port Royal on the first turn, and never let up. I have tried defending against this plan, and found it to be highly dependent upon the luck of the ambush. Having a dead Port Royal card is bad, and adding dead Louisbourg card makes double bad. If the Brits do this, the French must abandon all other forays and focus on preventing the loss of Acadia, because it is just 1(PR), two(LB), three(Quebec) and game over. And as Alan says, one wrong card can be fatal.

You know, I have been thinking that attacking Port Royal straight out of the gate is a bad idea, since the best you can do for the siege on turn 2 is add one more military, which means you lose the siege if the French draw infantry on turn 1 and use it.

Thinking about it again, that just means the cost to both sides for the siege is one action. Until you put an empire card that you can lose onto Port Royal, you don't really care if you lose the siege. If the siege gets to the point where you can start adding infantry, then you probably won't lose it. Further, while the British start at a one point disadvantage in Port Royal, vs a one point advantage in Permaquid, the French lose the use of Port Royal as a military card, and still need to burn an action to reserve it.

I'll have to keep this in mind, because the British would very much prefer the first siege be in Port Royal.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Wells
United States
Centralia
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
topdeckgames wrote:
I have been testing a similar British strategy recently, and it has been successful so far. Attack Port Royal on the first turn, and never let up. I have tried defending against this plan, and found it to be highly dependent upon the luck of the ambush. Having a dead Port Royal card is bad, and adding dead Louisbourg card makes double bad. If the Brits do this, the French must abandon all other forays and focus on preventing the loss of Acadia, because it is just 1(PR), two(LB), three(Quebec) and game over. And as Alan says, one wrong card can be fatal.


I can attest to this strategy working. The first game I played with Dan he played the British and used this strategy. As the French it was all I could do just to react. Sure, the Brits may lose a siege, but can start a new one in the next turn or two. The first game went just like Dan said. I watched a second game where a more experienced player took over and it was the same result. Played again last week, this time as the British. I took Port Royal pretty quickly. The only thing keeping the French alive was the use of ambushing. Unfortunately this game had to be called due to the store closing. We were tied on victory points at the time. And I must admit that a couple of the ambushes really hurt.

However, this tactic worries me more than a little. I would like to get a copy of the game, but am not sure if the British onslaught strategy is an auto-win. There are so many things about this game I really like, but don't want Port Royal to basically be the "Australia" of the game. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Jamet
France
Paris
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AndrewE wrote:
Thinking about it again, that just means the cost to both sides for the siege is one action. Until you put an empire card that you can lose onto Port Royal, you don't really care if you lose the siege. If the siege gets to the point where you can start adding infantry, then you probably won't lose it. Further, while the British start at a one point disadvantage in Port Royal, vs a one point advantage in Permaquid, the French lose the use of Port Royal as a military card, and still need to burn an action to reserve it.

I'll have to keep this in mind, because the British would very much prefer the first siege be in Port Royal.

I agree. And the same reasoning applied to the French leads to the conclusion they should lay siege to Pemaquid ASAP.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew E
United States
flag msg tools
mbmb
Pyjam wrote:
I agree. And the same reasoning applied to the French leads to the conclusion they should lay siege to Permaquid ASAP.

Ah, but it gets worse.

After the British siege Port Royal as their first action, the British can lock in Port Royal as the location of the first major battle, and furthermore, royally mess up the French's ability to gear up for that battle.

The trick for the British is to start the siege with Norfolk or New Haven or New York if necessary, and then to not add anything else to it until they're good and ready to start hammering it for real. That means the British will want to buy home support, reserve St. Mary's and Permaquid (do that last), and merchant 1-3 times.

How do the British keep the siege at Port Royal with only one card invested you might ask? Easy, abuse the hell out of the withdraw from siege free action. If the French put anything on the Port Royal siege, then the British simply respond by withdrawing from the siege and restarting it (which is why you hold onto Permaquid until right before you're ready to start hammering Port Royal)

This prevents the French from laying siege to Permaquid by making Port Royal a dead card. Further, it prevents the French from improving their deck by putting Louisburg, Quebec, and their infantry onto a siege, meaning that even though the French have just as many actions during this stalling the British are doing, the French actions just aren't as effective, so when the British finish their deck-improvement actions and start their Port Royal destruction actions, the French will be at a severe disadvantage.

My initial thought was that the French could sidestep this by settling Halifax and sieging Permaquid from there, but in fact, they cannot. They need Louisburg, Port Royal, and Quebec to do so. They could instead settle Fort Beausejour and get to Permaquid from there. That might not be terrible because while that fort only has a fur on it, the French could then use Montreal for the military rather than the fur.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
flag msg tools
Red Team
badge
#YOLO
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
They can also buy ships, a supposedly "useless" card.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Williams
United States
Doral
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How do the British keep the siege at Port Royal with only one card invested you might ask? Easy, abuse the hell out of the withdraw from siege free action. If the French put anything on the Port Royal siege, then the British simply respond by withdrawing from the siege and restarting it (which is why you hold onto Permaquid until right before you're ready to start hammering Port Royal)

Exactly. Once it took me three attempts to take Port Royal, against Jeff, and I did just that. The strength of this is that the Brits often can lose nothing by withdrawing, by having only location cards in the siege, and they force the French to focus on the military. If the French do anything else, like settle, they will probably lose, they just don't know it yet. And Pemaquid is junk for the Brits, except for launching a siege.
In one game the second siege by the Brits had every one of the military strength cards out by both sides, and the French lost. The Brits' deck size is a huge advantage.
I am also thinking that an open discard pile is a detriment to the game. As it stands now, if you ignore it, you do so at your peril. So, every turn I am examining both discard piles before playing. I think it would improve the game to keep them hidden as the fog of war.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew E
United States
flag msg tools
mbmb
clydeiii wrote:
They can also buy ships, a supposedly "useless" card.

Well sure, but dropping 6 coins on a ship just to get Halifax to jump over Port Royal seems like a huge waste compared to going through Fort Beausejour. It's also 2 actions to set up the siege rather than 1.

topdeckgames wrote:
I think it would improve the game to keep them hidden as the fog of war.

I disagree. I think it's a fundamental error in game design to have information that's hidden but trackable. Those mechanics reward memorization rather than strategy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.